Is the Sorcerer Story Too Narrow for a Base Class?

[KidSnide]

In general, the "non-core four" should be narrower, both mechanically and flavor wise. A paladin should feel more specialized then a fighter, a druid more so then a cleric, etc.

I don't think there is any question as to whether the sorcerer should be narrower than the core four. Of course it should be. The issue is that it is so narrow that it doesn't cover many concepts that have traditionally been covered by sorcerer classes (i.e. any type of inherent magic that is under control and/or doesn't transform you as you expend spells).

In comparison, it's like a paladin class that only works with gods of the sun, or a druid class that can only turn into a jaguar.

-KS

 

[Obryn]

I'm a lot more worried in whether or not its mechanics are too narrow for a base class. The answer seems to be "no" as far as I can see.

On the fluff/story side, I expect it should be fairly mutable based on the setting. Add a new Sorcerer bloodline or Warlock pact to match the world, and you're solid.

-O

 

[TerraDave]

I don't think there is any question as to whether the sorcerer should be narrower than the core four. Of course it should be. The issue is that it is so narrow that it doesn't cover many concepts that have traditionally been covered by sorcerer classes (i.e. any type of inherent magic that is under control and/or doesn't transform you as you expend spells).

In comparison, it's like a paladin class that only works with gods of the sun, or a druid class that can only turn into a jaguar.

-KS

But with other bloodlines, it wouldn't be that narrow.

And the paladin (from his virtue) or the druid (from a non-divine spiritual energy) could have equally narrow fluff.

 

[KidSnide]

But with other bloodlines, it wouldn't be that narrow.

I read the "uncontrolled power" and "power manifests as your willpower declines" to be general properties of sorcerers, not just a part of this bloodline. Instead, the article suggests that, as a sorcerer expends willpower, the dragon sorcerer gets more draconic and the fae sorcerer gets more faerie-like. These are the story elements I consider too narrow.

A sorcerer does indeed have access to an innate, magical nature, but that power is by no means tamed, controlled, or passive. A sorcerer’s power is a second soul trapped within the sorcerer’s body. It is a feral thing of arcane magic and strange instincts. Above all else, it is an intruder that seeks to escape.

...

As a sorcerer shapes and channels arcane energy, her willpower, the very sense of her own identity and existence, slowly decays. Powerful effects sap more of this will, while weaker ones sap less of it. A sorcerer forced to expend much of her will to channel magic undergoes a dramatic transformation as the entity within her surges to the surface. The intruder’s essence takes on a physical manifestation, transforming the sorcerer into a creature of fey magic, draconic might, or some other aspect.

-KS

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I really just want a spell point wizard.

In the worst case, I just replace the wizards spells per day with the sorcerers spells known, but I don't like that they throw away what the sorcerer class is and replace it with something entirely different that uses the same name.

*takes eraser*

*Erases "wizard", write in "sorcerer". Erases "sorcerer", writes in "wizard"*

*sets down eraser"

There, I fixed it: spell point wizard.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I actually think they were off to a really good start in the playtest packet. They say the origin of a sorcerer's power is a mystery, that some can trace it to a dragon ancestor, sometimes it's the mischievous influence of the fey, sometimes they have been exposed to powerful magic that changes them, or maybe some force intrudes upon the sorcerer's mind.

They should have just stopped right there. The whole dual soul, fighting off possession thing only fits the last of those options. It doesn't at all fit with any of the previous ones.

As for the whole growing claws and scales things, I'd rather these just be origin powers that you can pay willpower to use, rather than being forced to manifest them automatically just for casting spells. If a dragon-blooded sorcerer wants to pay X Willpower to grow claws, fine. Just don't force my sorcerer do it.

 

[variant]

I really just want a spell point wizard.

In the worst case, I just replace the wizards spells per day with the sorcerers spells known, but I don't like that they throw away what the sorcerer class is and replace it with something entirely different that uses the same name.

A spell point wizard doesn't fit the D&D core rules.

 

[variant]

I will also say that the sorcerer fluff is too narrow, so is the warlock. If I want to play a sorcerer that is a descendant of an ancient wizard family whose blood was fused with magic, it should be viable without having a second soul in me. As should a sorcerer that is a chosen of a god of magic and is infused with raw magic.

The key to the sorcerer should be that magic is innately in him and what that magic does to the caster, not necessarily why or how it happened. That should be left up to the players and DM.

 

[Falling Icicle]

There's something that's always bugged me about the wizard/sorcerer divide. Having a class (sorcerer) that manifests magic innately implies that wizards do not have any kind of special gift. Don't wizards have to have the gift of magic in order to become wizards? Can anybody learn to be a wizard?

I can think of plenty of fantasy wizards who find out that they have a gift for magic and start out using it accidentally until they learn to control their gift. Such characters don't fit within either the wizard or the sorcerer mold. D&D divides innate and learned magic into two completely different classes even though many fantasy mages have both.

 

[Vikingkingq]

I'm not actually sure how "narrow" the sorcerer story is - in the playtest packet alone, the key elements are that sorcerers have internal magic, and that sorcerers have to exert their will to keep it under control and as their willpower declines, the magic seeps out.

That's it. The two-souled stuff isn't part of the official class description yet. Draconic and fae legacies are two options we've heard of, but the class description mentions emphasizes how varied the cause of the internal magic is.

However, I would question a sorcerer concept that doesn't grapple with what the idea of inherent, internal, and untrained magic would mean, that doesn't build consequences into that concept. I don't think fewer spells known vs. more spells per day really cuts the mustard on something that important - it's not evocative design.

I think Willpower makes natural sense in representing a magic user who never received formal training in how to keep themselves from being affected by magic (after all, wizards as beings without inherent magic approach it as an external force that you need to be careful about controlling), and who has enough extra magic stuffed into them that they can keep casting when trained magic-users have exhausted themselves.