Is The Sunless Citadel a well-designed adventure module?

[Storm Raven]

I ran it, but not as written.

I changed the background to make it a temple located in the heart of a swamp devoted to a demonic parton of evil lizardkind and a lord of poison. At it's heart, instead of the Gulthias tree, was a fountain (in the shape of the deity) and altar that, when a lizardfolk or kobold was washed in the waters, would make them fiendish. The temple had been destroyed, sunken, and walled off long before, and the fountain's flow into the unholy basin interruped.

The temple was recently reopened by an evil priest allied with a band of bullywugs and chaond (called, collectively, wuggles) and the fountain's flow restored. The waters flowing into the unholy basin "called" to the blood of lizardfolk in the area, uncontrollably drawing them to try to get to the fountain, hence the kobolds (with a few lizardfolk) trying to get into the complex.

The evil priest was trying to use the power of the temple to "improve" his wuggle servants, but the magic of the unholy basin warped and twisted non-lizardfolk (like wuggles, or captured humans) turning them into hyperviolent morons. The twig blights were the result of the poison of the fountain running off into the surrounding waters.

I never told the characters I was running a module. I don't think they ever knew.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, thinking it was silly is different. You said you didn't understand "why the heck" he turned into a troll instead of a dragon. Clearly you misspoke. You did understand, you just didn't like it.

Nolo contendere!

-TG

 

[Sunderstone]

What would have made SC a good intro module? A little bit more extensive village and wilderness section would have helped. Instead of "the base" where you "recover" and "get quests", the village could have used more adventure hooks, a treacherous NPC guide, for instance, or a sub-quest outside the dungeon... A few wilderness encounters along the way or off the beaten path - e.g. like the infamous mad hermit or lizardman mound. Second, the dungeon should have had more alternate paths, circular routes, hidden stuff the players could find and so on. It would have made it a more rewarding experience and introduced beginning players to the concept that the decisions they make have more impact. All these changes would have pushed the module into the 48-56 page range, but with 3e's large stat blocks, this wouldn't have made it unwieldy.

Why must everything be a mini-campaign to some? Its easy enough for any DM to expand on, How hard is it to toss in an NPC here and there or a side-trek? Its this style of thinking that kills the classic/basic module design. Everything has to be huge and in-depth, blah, blah..... :\

The module was exactly what it was .... a focused, introductory module. It hit upon enough of the core rules without going overboard for an easy transition to 3rd edition. This type of module is what the market is missing these days (of course this is my opinion ). Small and Simple but easy enough to expand if one wanted to.


I do love the Wizard's Amulet/Crucible of Freya combo as well (Ive run both). Both are great for a beginning to any campaign.

 

[morbiczer]

I really liked the Sunless Citadel (I DMed it once). But there are things I would change if I would run it again:

1. I don't think the layout of the Sunless Citadell makes sense. Why would anyone build such a maze? So if I had the time, I would draw a new map.

2. If I remember well, the entrance to the whole complex isn't guarded by the kobolds. This also doesn't make much sense, although I understand that this has been probably done to enable peaceful contact with Meepo.

I think the best part about the adventure is that it encourages negotiation with the kobolds instead of violence.

 

[Vanuslux]

It was nice to have one of these threads regarding a module that I've actually had experience with. Unfortunately I've never played in any of the classic modules since I didn't start getting into the game until 2nd Edition AD&D and even then the only modules I experienced were Ravenloft modules.

 

[Melan]

Why must everything be a mini-campaign to some? Its easy enough for any DM to expand on, How hard is it to toss in an NPC here and there or a side-trek? Its this style of thinking that kills the classic/basic module design. Everything has to be huge and in-depth, blah, blah..... :\

The module was exactly what it was .... a focused, introductory module. It hit upon enough of the core rules without going overboard for an easy transition to 3rd edition. This type of module is what the market is missing these days (of course this is my opinion ). Small and Simple but easy enough to expand if one wanted to.

We seem to be in agreement - I don't think Sunless Citadel should have been a mini-campaign. It should have remained short and focused. However, Keep on the Borderlands was also short and focused, and had a base of operations and a few wilderness treks in addition to the dungeon. By being more economical with space and maybe some additional pages, Sunless Citadel could have been much better... without beign overburdened.

 

[Spatula]

Great module, certainly the best of the WOTC 3E adventures that I've read. It's perfectly generic (and simple to expand or modify) but has a number of very easy-to-use hooks that can be used with just about any kind of party. It includes some nice roleplaying opportunities and doesn't require the party to kill everything that crosses their path. The backstory is rather clever, and the follow-up in Heart of Nightfang Spire shows a nice use of foreshadowing. It also gets points from me for having an unusual BBEG.

The only real "flaw" I would say is the text not mentioning that the goblins have no path to the surface, thanks to the kobolds. This is actually necessary for one of the hooks (if the PCs are there for the apple, and the goblins can make it to the town to hold the auction for it, there's no adventure), but it has caused some confusion. My assumption is that the kobolds arrived in the period between apples and have pushed the goblins back.

 

[Melan]

And just a note: I opened a new thread on the subject of dungeon design and the problems of linearity. Sunless Citadel is discussed and compared with several other intor products - my claims that it is too linear seems to have been substantiated.

 

[monboesen]

I thought a good and robust adventure. I agree that the weakest part is the interaction between the kobolds and the goblins and the goblins lack of an exit..

That it did not have major setting specific tie ins was a huge advantage to me as I used it in a homebrew world. That made it easy to fit in and expand the city and adjacent areas.


I threw in a few changes

• A simple one session starting adventure that foreshadowed the horror of the twig blights.
• I fleshed out the village and the people and made it the player characters home village.
• I made the mayor sort of a culprit who dealt with the goblins apples in secrecy and kept the money for himself.
• They had some encounters with the twig blights on the way to the citadel.
• Drew some additional exits from the citadel.



As it turned out the adventure ended up being really really worth its cost. Due to how the campaign progressed my players ended up going down to the damn citadel no less than three times!

The first time it was more or less the standard adventure, but the players dealt peacefully with the kobolds and left them in control of the citadel.

Some time (and levels) later they had to go back as people from the village was disappearing and the disappearances seemed somehow linked to the citadel and the kobolds. The kobolds had used the time to trap and fortify the entire complex and the players got into a lot of trouble. It turned out that there were two factions of kobolds and they again left one of them more or less intact and in control of the citadel.

More time (and more levels) later Gulthias recovered (the vampire staked under the citadel) and weak as he was started feeding on the kobolds. This time Meepo sought out the heroes and begged for help against the monsters that hunted the kobolds. The players went down a third time and dealt with kobold vampire spawns (but Gulthias evaded them). They left with Meepo a hero and in charge of the kobolds.


Great fun really. In fact many of the campaigns major plot lines and ideas came from that adventure. Lots of little details and notes just sparked my imagination and gave birth to a campaign that reached far beyond that citadel.


I miss that campaign.

 

[Ranes]

I thought it was very good and just what was needed as an introductory module. I didn't have a problem giving my players clues that suggested the goblins' original route to the village had been cut off in the ebb and flow of the power struggle between them and the kobolds. I did have concerns with the cute kobold angle but I ran it that way and all three groups I DM'ed it for had a laugh with it.