Is there a Giant Bat? / Help me build a were-bat

[Lord Pendragon]

right. my bad. it was the wotc adventure not dungeon.

dire is the new Giant for most animals.

you could always go Legendary Animal/Bat

Weeeeell, a Legendary Bat would be extremely powerful, from what I know of the Legendary creatures in general. What I want is a weak, but Small-sized bat. Basically, I was looking for a bat that I could use with the lycanthropic template. The template requires the critter be at least Small for a Medium-sized base creature, hence my hunt began.

I hadn't realized there's already a Werebat in Monsters of Faerun! I do have access to that book I think, though I rarely ever use it. I'll take a look at that one when I get home. It may save me the trouble altogether.

That said, I did take a look at the advancement rules and the standard Bat, and write up this:

VAMPIRE BAT
Small Animal
Hit Dice: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 5 ft (1 square), fly 40 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +4 Dex, +1 natural), touch 15, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–6
Attack: +5 bite (1d4 + con damage)
Full Attack: +5 bite (1d4 + con damage)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Con damage
Special Qualities: Blindsense 20 ft., low-light vision
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +2
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 19, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 4
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +12*, Move Silently +8, Spot +12*
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Temperate deserts
Organization: Colony (10–20) or crowd (20–30)
Challenge Rating: 1/3
Advancement: 2–3 HD (Small); 4–6 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —
Vampire bats are nocturnal flying mammals. The statistics presented here describe big, carnivorous bats.
Combat
Blindsense (Ex): A bat notices and locates creatures within 20 feet. Opponents still have 100% concealment against a creature with blindsense.
Con Damage (Ex): A vampire bat that hits with its bite attack also has a chance to deal 1 point of Con Damage (Fortitude Save, DC 11 to negate). The save DC is Constitution-based.
Skills: *A vampire bat has a +8 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsense is negated.

How does that look? I basically bumped a Bat to Small size, then tweaked it a bit with an eye toward the Dire Rat.

 

[Klaus]

Well, you could reduce the Dire Bat by two size categories to make it smaller, inverting the attribute changes found in the MM appendix.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, you could reduce the Dire Bat by two size categories to make it smaller, inverting the attribute changes found in the MM appendix.

I'm using the SRD section "Improving Monsters" which I assume is the appendix section you're mentioning. I could reduce the size and attributes, though I'm not seeing any guidelines on reducing the critter's actual hit dice...

 

[shilsen]

Check in the Giant Befry.

Belfry. It really kills a joke when you misspell it

 

[Mistwell]

Belfry. It really kills a joke when you misspell it

I edited it, and THEN found your post...damn....

 

[Lord Pendragon]

A few questions that have come up as I play with building a were-bat based on the Vampire Bat above.

Special Qualities: A lycanthrope retains all the special qualities of the base creature and the base animal, and also gains those described below.

1. Does this mean that since my Vampire Bat has Blindsense (Ex), that the resulting were-bat would have Blindsense (Ex)...even in humanoid form?

Abilities: All lycanthropes gain +2 to Wisdom. In addition, when in animal form, a lycanthrope’s physical ability scores improve according to its kind, as set out in the table below. These adjustments are equal to the animal’s normal ability scores –10 or –11.

So when in Vampire Bat form, does the lycanthrope have the Vampire Bat's stats...or the were-bat's humanoid stats...modified by the Vampire Bat's racial modifiers?

Thanks for any help, guys. I usually just create monsters out of whole cloth, or use a monster as-is while completely re-writing the description and flavor text. Playing with this template is new for me.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

1. Does this mean that since my Vampire Bat has Blindsense (Ex), that the resulting were-bat would have Blindsense (Ex)...even in humanoid form?

Yes. Note that, in the SRD, werebears and werewolves in humanoid form retain the Scent (EX) ability.

So when in Vampire Bat form, does the lycanthrope have the Vampire Bat's stats...or the were-bat's humanoid stats...modified by the Vampire Bat's racial modifiers?

The humanoid stats + / - the Vampire Bat's racial mods.

Let's say a Vampire Bat has racial mods of Str: +0; Dex: +6; Con: +2.

Your character has, after his own racial ability mods: Str 14; Dex 14; Con 14

When he shifts to Hybrid or Animal form, his stats are: Str 14; Dex 20; Con 16

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Yes. Note that, in the SRD, werebears and werewolves in humanoid form retain the Scent (EX) ability.

Cool. I'm assuming it'd work in reverse then as well. In Vampire Bat or Hybrid form this were-bat would retain Dwarf Traits (Ex), as my particular were-bat uses dwarf as the base creature.

The humanoid stats + / - the Vampire Bat's racial mods.

Let's say a Vampire Bat has racial mods of Str: +0; Dex: +6; Con: +2.

Your character has, after his own racial ability mods: Str 14; Dex 14; Con 14

When he shifts to Hybrid or Animal form, his stats are: Str 14; Dex 20; Con 16

Thanks again. I'll actually need to make sure one of my players (who is playing a were-rat) knows this as well... I think the stats he sent me had his Dire Rat form as standard, and it should be a lot tougher, ability score wise.

Great. This were-bat is shaping up!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Glad to help, LP!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Oi. So building this were-bat with class levels is more work than I'd thought it would be. Here's hoping that the PCs don't kill him in his first encounter.

Another question: My were-bat as a +3 LA. How do I figure out max ranks when I'm choosing his skills? He winds up being 3 class levels + 1 animal HD +3 LA = ECL 7. Now, he gains skill points for his 1 HD of vampire bat, and skill points for his 3 class levels. But what are the max ranks on his skill points? 4 for the vampire bat skills and 7 for the class level skills? 10 for everything?