D&D 5E Is there a good Faceman option for rogues?

[CleverNickName]

Yeah, if you were OK with casting as part of the concept a 1/2 Elf Lore Bard is a great pick, no doubt. Barring that I'd go VHum for the Feat, or a race that gets extra skills. Barring a race specific to the concept of course, I always work top down and I don't make all my decisions about builds based on optimization.

If you're using feats, class doesn't really matter. Put your highest stat in Charisma and pick up the Magic Initiate feat. Then choose the friends cantrip and the charm person spell from the sorcerer spell list.

 

[Fenris-77]

If you're using feats, class doesn't really matter. Put your highest stat in Charisma and pick up the Magic Initiate feat. Then choose the friends cantrip and the charm person spell from the sorcerer spell list.

That's not quite the auto-win button it seems like if the DM is being consistent about characters paying the consequences for their actions. Both the consequences stemming from the spells, and also the potential consequences of casting in public. If you DM lets you just rip off a Charm Person in a crowded tavern full of Thieves Guild toughs, or in the middle of the Duke's ball, then he's being nice. This is one of those places where magic isn't really an easy button.

 

[CleverNickName]

That's not quite the auto-win button it seems like if the DM is being consistent about characters paying the consequences for their actions. Both the consequences stemming from the spells, and also the potential consequences of casting in public. If you DM lets you just rip off a Charm Person in a crowded tavern full of Thieves Guild toughs, or in the middle of the Duke's ball, then he's being nice. This is one of those places where magic isn't really an easy button.

Well no, but that depends on what you think a "win" is. If all you need to do is change someone's mind about who they should dance with at the duke's ball, you just need a Persuasion check. But if you need to persuade that hobgoblin guard not to sound the alarm horn around his neck, you're gonna want something a little more robust than your pretty face.

 

[Bacon Bits]

If you're using feats, class doesn't really matter. Put your highest stat in Charisma and pick up the Magic Initiate feat. Then choose the friends cantrip and the charm person spell from the sorcerer spell list.

Friends is terrible. Ross is a jerk, Chandler is a coward, and Phoebe is totally inconsistent. Also, the cantrip makes the target hostile. It's only useful in emergencies for very short encounters, which means it's almost never worth it, IMX.

If I were going to be a Rogue face, I'd go for either Mastermind or Arcane Trickster. I'd also not attempt it unless there was no Bard, Paladin, or possibly Warlock in the group, and I wouldn't put more than a 14 in Cha after racial mods unless I knew my game was going to involve a very large amount of roleplay. I'd generally favor Arcane Trickster with Disguise Self, Charm Person, and (if necessary) Enhance Ability. If I still needed help with social stuff, I'd try to pick up the Actor feat and either the Noble, Charlatan, or Pirate backgrounds, which together feel like they can accomplish a lot.

Personally, I think Mastermind is the best companion to the party face, since they can basically give two people advantage on any check the whole time the conversation is going on.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well no, but that depends on what you think a "win" is. If all you need to do is change someone's mind about who they should dance with at the duke's ball, you just need a Persuasion check. But if you need to persuade that hobgoblin guard not to sound the alarm horn around his neck, you're gonna want something a little more robust than your pretty face.

Ain't that the truth. Really, they aren't even the same thing. Charm Person is the interpersonal version of pulling a knife. Fine for those Hobgoblin situations, but lousy for the ballroom. I might want a Face to have both, but as far as the concept goes, as I see it (so my version) , it starts with skills, not spells. Your version could be very different, and that's cool.

 

[JPL]

Lotta good thoughts here.

Mastermind might be the most appealing of the current options.

I'm a big fan of the "Help as bonus action" feature. In fact, something along the lines of an Essentials Sidekick could be a cool approach --- Expertise in Diplomacy and Bluff, and default mode in combat is Dodge + bonus Help, as the comic relief sidekick miraculously survives another fight while the hero seemingly does all the work.

I think that any game where one of the PCs is playing a "faceman" character involves at least a tacit agreement between DM and players that this is gonna be the type of game where that skill set comes into play.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think that any game where one of the PCs is playing a "faceman" character involves at least a tacit agreement between DM and players that this is gonna be the type of game where that skill set comes into play.

I think it would need to be more than tacit, personally. The build is useful in direct scale to social interaction encounters, so I think the pitch for the game would have to be urban, or intrigue, or both. I love those games, but they aren't everyone's cup of tea. I've played socially-indexed characters in games that ended up being very wilderness oriented, it's not so much fun.

 

[JPL]

Well, you could play a forest gnome and try to smooth-talk squirrels and birds.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well, you could play a forest gnome and try to smooth-talk squirrels and birds.

Quick, chew through my ball sack!
- Principal Skinner

Simpson's quotes are like nacho cheese sauce, they go with everything.

 

[FrozenNorth]

No, because they get more skills than any other class allowing for a better range of social interactions skills and they have access to expertise and reliable talent. A Face would be built on more than just Persuasion IMO.

In addition, a ranged rogue only needs to invest in Dex, so they have the option to put points in Int, Wis or Cha (or even all 3) if they want.