Is there a new standard for the "Large and In Charge" feat?

[Bauglir]

Don't forget though: how many of these Large critters have high Dex and Combat Reflexes?

That's a good point.. I can think of plenty high str low dex monsters, and a few high dex low str monsters, but I can't think of any high str high dex monsters off the top of my head.

So in practical application (PC half-ogres with spiked chains aside) it's really only going to be useful vs one opponent.

How about house ruling it to once per round, to remove the potential for it to become abusive?

 

[Derulbaskul]

Personally, I won't house rule it to once per round because of the way I build my NPCs. Also, I don't have the problem of half-ogre PCs with or without spiked chains. If you want a half-ogre IMC, then it's a 2HD Giant with a +2 LA, and then you NEED a good feat like this so that you're not ineffective compared to the rest of the party.

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

If you want a half-ogre IMC, then it's a 2HD Giant with a +2 LA, and then you NEED a good feat like this so that you're not ineffective compared to the rest of the party.

Interesting you should bring this up, because my whole reason for inquiring about this feat in the first place was to allow player character half-ogres to choose it. Like you apparently, I was not happy with the treatment of half-ogres in the Savage Species book, and made them 2 Hit Dice creatures as well, but with a +1 level adjustment (to compliment the ogre 4 Hit Dice and +2 level adjustment. The Savage Species half-ogre granted no additional Hit Dice and +1 Level Adjustment before gaining their Large size (way to fast, and not nearly "half" ogre/"half" human commoner in my opinion).

So I gave the half-ogre 3 level of monster progressions (a la Savage Species). Indeed, after committing 3 levels to earning their size, half-ogres *deserve* the Large and In Charge feat, should it even appeal to them.

You can find this half-ogre by clicking here.

 

[strongbow]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out the loophole for players. If your DM will allow you to purchase a constant effect enlarge person item, then your now large size fighter could learn this feat. And have Combat Reflexes. And have a Spiked Chain.

If the feat gave you an opposed Str check, with a +4 bonus for size it would be ok, but the extra bonus from damage makes it sick.

Don't forget Hold the Line! Reprinted in 3.5 in Complete Warrior:

You may make an AoO vs a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your AoO happens immediately before the charge is resolved.

Of course, what DM would allow such a thing (; Korak)

 

[Korak]

Don't forget Hold the Line! Reprinted in 3.5 in Complete Warrior:

You may make an AoO vs a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your AoO happens immediately before the charge is resolved.

Of course, what DM would allow such a thing (; Korak)

Bah, charging is so 3.0. Anyway, as for allowing constant effect enlarge person items, I think you are cofusing my game with yours.

Large and in Charge is a far better feat than hold the line, but I like the feat since it makes larger creatures more dangerous, and it causes pcs to have to plan and adjust their tactics significantly from human sized opponents. That is a "good thing" IMO.

 

[Derulbaskul]

SoP,

IMO, I still think a 2 HD half-ogre deserves a +2 LA.

Strongbow,

Hold the Line isn't that big an issue when you have 10'+ reach: a charging opponent without reach is going to trigger an AoO anyway.

Korak,

I agree with your comments about making Large creatures a little bit deadlier... like they should be!

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

SoP,

IMO, I still think a 2 HD half-ogre deserves a +2 LA.

As did I at first, but the half-ogre really doesn't have any abilities or adjustments that justify drawing it out that long.

+2 Strength, +3 natural armor, and Large size. That's it.

Drawing those abilities out over 3 levels seemed like a long time as is, but I can't imagine the half-ogre taking any less time than one-half the ogre monster progression (at 6 levels).

 

[strongbow]

My point about Hold the Line combined with Large and in charge is this.

Large and In Charge lets you stop your opponent when they move inside your threatened area. For example with our Half-Ogre with 10 ft reach, an opponent that moves from a square 10 ft away to an adjacent square in relation to the ogre would provoke an AoO. L&IC would enable the Ogre to keep the opponent 10 ft away.

Now combine it with Hold the Line. Hold the line reads (You may make an AoO vs a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your AoO happens immediately before the charge is resolved). Now the Ogre gets an AoO when his opponent is moving from 15 ft away into the square that is 10 ft away. L&IC lets you knock them into the square that the opponent was before the AoO. So the fighter is left high and dry 15 ft away. That is why you combine the two together. I agree that L&IC is far better; combination is the emphasis here

By the way Korak, that was a joke earlier poking fun at myself.

Edit: Inadvertant frowning face

 

[Derulbaskul]

As did I at first, but the half-ogre really doesn't have any abilities or adjustments that justify drawing it out that long. +2 Strength, +3 natural armor, and Large size. That's it. Drawing those abilities out over 3 levels seemed like a long time as is, but I can't imagine the half-ogre taking any less time than one-half the ogre monster progression (at 6 levels).

Oh, ok. My half-ogre has +4 Str and +2 Con. With natural armour, reach and Large weapons I think that's definitely a +2 LA.

 

[Sonofapreacherman]

Oh, ok. My half-ogre has +4 Str and +2 Con. With natural armour, reach and Large weapons I think that's definitely a +2 LA.

Ack! Misunderstandings abound. The half-ogre *earns* +2 Strength, +3 natural armor, 2 Hit Dice, and their Large size over 3 monster levels (a la Savage Species), but their base half-ogre racial traits include:

• +4 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma.
• Medium: As Medium creatures, half-ogres have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Half-ogre base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision: Half-ogres can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-ogres can function just fine with no light at all.
• Low-Light Vision: A half-ogre can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Giant Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-ogre is considered a giant. Half-ogres, for example, are just as vulnerable to special effects that affect giants as their giant ancestors are, and they can use magical items that are only usable by giants. (See the Monster Manual for more information about giants, and the Dungeon Master's Guide for more on magic items.)
• Automatic Languages: Common and Giant. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc.
• Favored Class: Berserker and half-ogre. A multiclass half-ogre's berserker and half-ogre class do not count when determining whether an experience point penalty is taken for multiclassing (see XP for Multiclass Characters, page 60 of the Player's Handbook).

Any more than 3 monster levels just seemed excessive. As I posted above, you can find that half-ogre progression by clicking here.