Is there a Relationship between Game Lethality and Role Play?

Reflecting the comic books that inspired them, superhero RPGs tend to make character mortality an extremely rare (and even more rarely permanent) occurrence. Also in keeping with the genre, there tends in my experience to be a heavy element of "soap opera" in such games. The "karma" rules in TSR's Marvel Super Heroes (and the Four Colors simulacrum) are my favorite mechanical implementation of that aspect.

It cracked me up years ago, visiting a club to play Champions, when an AD&Der quipped that it was "not really a game" because so many sessions went by without a single dice-roll! That was just a practical response to the fact that any fight was likely to occupy a whole session by itself. I don't think the wag would have come to the same opinion if he'd seen a session in which the hex maps and miniatures were broken out!
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Query: Isn't 2e considered old-school?

If so, the only way to get XP was by killing critters (you didn't get XP from finding treasure) - Individual XP was an optional rule.

As an aside, here's an interesting quote from the 2e DMG about the goals of every session.

"Three goals are constant - fun, character survival and improvement. Each of these should be possible in a single game session. If any one is missing, player enjoyment decreases"
- DMG pg 67 (black cover)
 

Query: Isn't 2e considered old-school?

If so, the only way to get XP was by killing critters (you didn't get XP from finding treasure) - Individual XP was an optional rule.

I think you misremember. Yes, Thieves could optionally get individual bonus treasure XP, AIR. But default treasure XP for all was core.
 

I think you misremember. Yes, Thieves could optionally get individual bonus treasure XP, AIR. But default treasure XP for all was core.

Nope.

I just doublechecked my 2e DMG (black cover) and it doesn't mention anything about treasure XP for all. Only optinal thing was that thieves got 2 xp per gold piece of treasure (and this was only for gold as magic items in 2e don't seem to have either an XP or GP value attached to them...)
 

Nope.

I just doublechecked my 2e DMG (black cover) and it doesn't mention anything about treasure XP for all. Only optinal thing was that thieves got 2 xp per gold piece of treasure (and this was only for gold as magic items in 2e don't seem to have either an XP or GP value attached to them...)

Surely it's 1 XP per GP default, optionally Thieves get 2 XP/gp? I read it, years ago, that's what I remember. :erm:
 

Surely it's 1 XP per GP default, optionally Thieves get 2 XP/gp? I read it, years ago, that's what I remember. :erm:

Heh..we are getting old so the mind plays tricks on us:lol:

But seriously, that rule got dropped in 2nd edition and thus the only "official" way to gain XP was by defeating monsters.

Not necessarily by killing them and it gives an example of parleying with a dragon to get it to leave a village alone but the players have to face the threat (my impression of reading the rules - simply avoiding the encounter doesn't constitute defeating the monster)
 

Second Edition has a "story award", but that is supposed to be no more than 1:1 with XP possible from defeating monsters encountered (and in any case no more than enough for 10 to raise a character 1 level) -- versus an expected ratio of 3:1 or so for treasure in the old model. XP values for monsters are higher, but not enough to keep advancement from being greatly slowed. At low levels, the result is basically higher PC mortality due to greater emphasis on combat (at minimum, more monster encounters per level).

In my experience, people tend to come up with other schemes. Some restore treasure XP. Others implement either bigger story awards or (what is often effectively the same thing) characters simply gaining levels by DM decree. A common problem is that story awards are not explicit before the fact the way treasures (at least potentially) are to players. Instead of being able to exercise strategies to minimize risk and maximize rewards, players end up just taking whatever the DM gives them.

Increasing monster XP even more has the benefit of giving players more control than (post hoc) story awards, but of course further reduces experience to a matter of monster-fighting.

The trend in published modules in that era was toward story "railroads", which made the issue of "encouraging" any sort of approach by other means pretty moot. If the plot-line suffered any decline under WotC, it seems to me to have returned.
 
Last edited:


THere's another difference between 1e and 2e now that I think about it....the use of hirelings followers and henchmen. You explicitly could not have hirelings and followers on an adventurer and henchmen were not hireable but were on the DM's control as to when they would appear.

This would also affect the lethality I imagine.

(War dogs are mentioned in the PHB and MM, but for some reason I never encountered a 2e party that uses them)
 

In my experience, people tend to come up with other schemes. Some restore treasure XP. Others implement either bigger story awards or (what is often effectively the same thing) characters simply gaining levels by DM decree. A common problem is that story awards are not explicit before the fact the way treasures (at least potentially) are to players. Instead of being able to exercise strategies to minimize risk and maximize rewards, players end up just taking whatever the DM gives them.

I think this is one natural outgrowth of players getting to set their own goals. Not all players and their characters have the goal "fight monsters" — but at the same time, not all of them have the goal "accumulate wealth." Back in the day of 2nd edition, my experience was that you'd see more players developing goals that were very story-related: "kill my father," "reestablish the glory of my noble house," "find a place in the world," "win true love." Now, you could rationalize a desire to gain treasure as attaching on as a way to accomplish any of these goals, but it's still a bit grafted, and not everyone would do it.

This was (and still is) a popular mode of play, especially beyond D&D — it's just not particularly profitable for adventure publishers. If players have a lot of investment in one character and value the personal storyline over unrelated adventures, most often they're not terribly interested in running through pre-packaged adventures. I remember an old game in which we got to actually play through Ravenloft, to my mind king of the old-school modules — and fun though it was, the players generally saw it as a side trek to what their characters were really about, not a defining moment. Mostly they wanted the personalized adventure. This tended to mean the actual roleplay of achieving a goal was more important than the XP, but story awards were highly appreciated. They were a way for the DM to encourage that proactive define-your-own-goals play.

For games like this, a high lethality setting may encourage players to focus even further on their individual goals, making them much less patient with side-stories or adventures no matter how important they may be overall. Risking your neck to stop an evil cult is something players may resent if that cult has no narrative tie to their ambitions (other than the reactive "you can't achieve your goals if Monster Of The Week destroys your supporting cast!"). I tended to note a relaxed lethality level in games like this, because it wasn't really necessary to encourage focus. Other consequences for failure often had more emotional weight than lethality — screwing up and alienating a potential ally or loved one was something that could hurt, and in an ongoing fashion.

It's an interesting situation. Players can be just as interested in "keeping on track" as GMs. In such cases, I tend to say be robust with the story awards and easy on the lethality — but that's not exactly encouraging roleplay to flower, it's more working to keep it healthy after it's already bloomed.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top