Is there an upper limit for Vampiric Touch?

[Vahktang]

Not on the target. That goes until the target dies.
What about the caster?

You have a buddy with heal and a 100+ hit points.
You cast on that person 3 times, and you now have 100+ hp.
They do heal and their full up.

Is there an upper limit I am missing?
Or, how do you play it?
Max of double hit points?

More later,

Vahktang

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Well, from a role-playing perspective the spell sounds like it's painful so I doubt someone would voluntarily allow themselves to be touched just so the caster can get healed. Why not just cast heal on the person casting vampiric touch?

 

[Darklone]

Well... using a level 6 spell several times to beef up a level 3 spell? Sounds ok to me if the PC doesn't object being hurt.

 

[Jack Simth]

It depends on a simple ruling the DM makes - does the temporary HP from Vampiric touch fall under:

Stacking Effects: Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves.

or

A bonus that isn’t named stacks with any bonus.

?

If the first, the Vampiric Touch is limited to the maximum damage dealt by the touch - 10d6 (60) at 20th level, assuming no metamagic. If the second, then no - all temp HP from repeated castings of Vampiric Touch stack.

 

[Cabral]

I would probably restrict it to the maximum that can be rolled on the dice.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It depends on a simple ruling the DM makes...

It's a fraction more complex, unfortunately.

There's disagreement as to what 'overlapping' THP actually means.

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

Some will suggest that if someone is the target of three False Life spells, for 20, 30, and 40 temp hit points respectively, that the 40 THP spell the best of identical spells operating at different strengths.

If he has 60 hit points of his own, then he temporarily has 100 hit points - 60, plus 40 temporary hit points from the best of the three spells.

If he gets hit for 15 damage, that damage comes off the temporary hit points supplied by the operative False Life spell first. The THP of the three spells is now 20, 30, and 25 respectively. The active spell is no longer the best of the three identical spells, and goes quiescent; the 30 THP spell is now active. The character's effective hit point total is 90 - 60, plus 30 from the active spell.

If he gets hit for another 15 damage, his three spells now rate 20, 15, and 25 respectively. The active spell goes quiescent, and the 25 THP spell takes over, leaving him with an effective total of 85.

Now, what's the difference between this interpretation of overlapping, where he has a total of 85 hit points, but can take 120 more hit points before collapsing, and if the spells stacks, where he'd have a total of 120 hit points, and could take 120 hit points before collapsing? In the first case, he's subject to Power Word: Kill, and in the second, he isn't.

... that's about the only difference between 'stack' and 'don't stack' under that reading of overlapping.

In order to make overlapping THP behave as though they're actually overlapping, I'd personally read it that if two False Life spells have identical totals, they're both active (though the character's hit point total is only raised once, not twice), and thus any damage removes THP from both spells.

So in the above example, when the three spells have 20, 30, and 40 THP respectively, and the character is hit for 15 damage, the first 10 of that comes off the 40 THP spell only. The remaining five damage, however, comes off both the 30 THP spell and the originally-40 THP spell, since both of these now have 30 THP left and are both operating in identical strength.

Following that hit, the character has 60 hit points, plus three False Life spells supplying 20, 25, and 25 hit points respectively - a total of 85 (exactly what we'd expect, after a total of 100 gets hit for 15). After a second hit for 15 damage, he has 60 hit points, plus three False Life spells each supplying 10 hit points - a total of 70 (again, what we'd expect, after a total of 85 gets hit for 15).

-Hyp.

 

[boolean]

Now, what's the difference between this interpretation of overlapping, where he has a total of 85 hit points, but can take 120 more hit points before collapsing, and if the spells stacks, where he'd have a total of 120 hit points, and could take 120 hit points before collapsing? In the first case, he's subject to Power Word: Kill, and in the second, he isn't.

... that's about the only difference between 'stack' and 'don't stack' under that reading of overlapping.

The other difference is that if the character gets hit for 30 point, while his highest False Life only has 25 points remaining, he takes 5 points of damage to his normal hit points. (Depending on DM interpretation. Some DMs might apply the last 5 points to his next highest False Life.)

 

[Jack Simth]

It's a fraction more complex, unfortunately.

There's disagreement as to what 'overlapping' THP actually means.

Okay, so two or three simple rulings, rather than one, as there's some ambiguity in the ruleset on how Temporary HP from multiple spells (or multiples of the same spell) act.

Seriously though, I suspect most DM's simply decide whether or not they should stack (and in what manner, if so), and then make any secondary rulings about it based primarily on the first (E.g., a DM that permits temporary HP from False Life to stack with those from Vampiric Touch but not with another casting of False Life is unlikely to be convinced that False Life stacks with False Life in the secondary manner, as is a DM that won't let False Life stack with Vampiric Touch)

 

[Infiniti2000]

If he gets hit for 15 damage, that damage comes off the temporary hit points supplied by the operative False Life spell first. The THP of the three spells is now 20, 30, and 25 respectively. The active spell is no longer the best of the three identical spells, and goes quiescent; the 30 THP spell is now active.

This is the problem point. There's nothing in the rules about overlapping spells that makes one spell "quiescent", which is apparently the same as suppressing them. The other spells are not suppressed, they are all equally active.

In order to make overlapping THP behave as though they're actually overlapping, I'd personally read it that if two False Life spells have identical totals, they're both active (though the character's hit point total is only raised once, not twice), and thus any damage removes THP from both spells.

I agree with this interpretation and it makes the most sense without introducing a clear assumption about "quiescent" spells.

Thus, multiple vampiric touch spells do not stack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's nothing in the rules about overlapping spells that makes one spell "quiescent", which is apparently the same as suppressing them. The other spells are not suppressed, they are all equally active.

Well, it says "only the best applies". If the other two spells do not apply, they are not adding THP to the character's hit point total; THP that are not being added to the character's hit point total cannot be decreased by damage that is applied to that total, surely?

-Hyp.