is this GM bad or am i just a wuss?

[S'mon]

I know that that can happen. And even in Shadowrun that can happen. They shooters can roll low and the person being shot rolls really well on his defense roll and stages the damage down.

But it is not a guarantee and it should be a scary tense encounter that you have to think twice about.

In most DnD games I have played in crossbows are limited to a d6 or a d8 if its heavy. So a high level character with a lot of hitpoints can be shot with a lot of bolts and not die. If you make most city guardsmen third level they are not even going to be able to hit a high level character unless they crit.

So you start seeing these arrogant PCs thumbing their noses at the local guards because they know that they can't be hurt. The only solution the DM has then is to raise the guards level.

So power escalation starts making the arms race look tame in comparison.

I guess what I want is to see character become more competent but not become demigods where a lone fighter can wade through 100 orcs. A game where people tell of the legend of Bob the world's greatest swordsmen who never lost a fight but died because he grabbed the evil King and threw both of them off a cliff.

Hm, sounds as if high level D&D is not the game for you. The idea in D&D is that if the great hero is trying not to be hit by the mook guardsmen, he won't be hit/seriously injured by them. If you're using 3e, I'd suggest E6 or similar might be a good approach (and make the guards 3rd-4th level vs the 6th level PCs).

It is much less of a problem in 4e, in 4e if you want a world where the lone high-level Fighter cannot wade through 100 Orcs you can easily stat Orcs accordingly: Orc Raider 3rd level, Orc Veteran 8th level, Orc Elite 13th level, Orc Battle Champion 18th level; that works fine in 4e.

It's also possible to run 4e as an Heroic Tier (1st-10th level only) game, but even playing through Paragon (11th-20th) you can plausibly stat the Orcs as high level Minions, this lets them do lots of damage to high-level PCs but they die easily. Or stat them as a very high level Swarm that will kill the high level Fighter.

Personally I have no problem with a legendary hero being able to defeat 100 Orcs.

 

[epicbob]

Even though it's off-topic ( ), That stat damage idea for falling great heights seems pretty cool.

After all, you never know what to expect when you fall from a high place. Will you bust your arm? Perhaps your leg? Or maybe even cave your face in? Who knows?

 

[pemerton]

I think, for falling, I'd make it STR and DEX damage first, and CON damage when STR and DEX run out. Presumably some balanced numbers could be worked out by looking at a few poisons at different CRs.

 

[Elf Witch]

Hm, sounds as if high level D&D is not the game for you. The idea in D&D is that if the great hero is trying not to be hit by the mook guardsmen, he won't be hit/seriously injured by them. If you're using 3e, I'd suggest E6 or similar might be a good approach (and make the guards 3rd-4th level vs the 6th level PCs).

It is much less of a problem in 4e, in 4e if you want a world where the lone high-level Fighter cannot wade through 100 Orcs you can easily stat Orcs accordingly: Orc Raider 3rd level, Orc Veteran 8th level, Orc Elite 13th level, Orc Battle Champion 18th level; that works fine in 4e.

It's also possible to run 4e as an Heroic Tier (1st-10th level only) game, but even playing through Paragon (11th-20th) you can plausibly stat the Orcs as high level Minions, this lets them do lots of damage to high-level PCs but they die easily. Or stat them as a very high level Swarm that will kill the high level Fighter.

Personally I have no problem with a legendary hero being able to defeat 100 Orcs.

I think I am burned out on DnD. Since it is the only fantasy game we play and we have been playing for so long that it has become predictable and rather boring. I am starting to see that every character is designed a certain way because that is the best optimized build for that class.

I wish I could find another system. I have tried GURPS but I am not crazy for the rules and someone suggested Hero system but for me that is way to much work. You build everything from scratch.

I wish I could find a rule set for fantasy that was similar to the rule set that Shadowrun has.

 

[Virel]

Epicbob,

Many times being a 1st AD&D DM, I've had a group of inexperienced players. That's really one of the best situations for an experienced DM. Everything is new and exciting for them.

The DM needs to have an excellent grasp on how what he wants to challege the players. I think your DM is clueless in this area for example the "must have paper" deal where the inn keeper turns in the PC's and they get excuted. What the DM probably intened and obviously failed to communiate is do some recon and learn before just walking in and getting blind sided. With the group captured, there should with a fair DM have been several chances to escape or work out a reasonable outcome. The punishment strikes me as excessively harsh. A good whipping, or three days in stocks etc, then running the PC's out of town have been plenty harsh. A nice fine would have been more reasonable, then having to purchase papers etc.

There isn't anything wrong with tossing frost giants at 1st level pc's PROVIDED a clear and reasonable method of escape is presented to the players along with a hint or two this is well over your head. Sometimes it's very important to teach early on that retreat can be an option. Learning that can help avoid TPK's later pushing a hopeless situation.

Mixing in seasoned players is usually a terrible idea, unless those players understand they need to let the new players make the critical decisions and only offer advice when the decisions are poorly considered. The seasoned player should be taking a back seat for at least several sessions and be getting less of the DM's time until the group is up to speed.

Talk with the other inexperienced players and have a nice friendly toned disucssion, then talk with the DM and the experienced players. All of this may be communication and expectation issue.

If all else fails find a another DM, sometimes the most fun is had with a new DM who is learning the game along wih the players.

Best of luck.

 

[Virel]

Elfwitch,

Ever think about trying old school OD&D or a knock off like Labyrinth Lords? If you've played the new versions of the game, the old one can seem fresh again. There is far less "design" work for creating PC's. Roll the PC's up the hard way 3d6.

Your DM is a natural for LL because she's very creative. There are lots of resources for her to draw from. She will have to house rule on things but she seems a fair minded person from all you've posted. She might find the old versons a refreshing treat for a few sessions.

How much fun would it be to watch your "powergaming" friend have to switch systems?

I think I am burned out on DnD. Since it is the only fantasy game we play and we have been playing for so long that it has become predictable and rather boring. I am starting to see that every character is designed a certain way because that is the best optimized build for that class.

I wish I could find another system. I have tried GURPS but I am not crazy for the rules and someone suggested Hero system but for me that is way to much work. You build everything from scratch.

I wish I could find a rule set for fantasy that was similar to the rule set that Shadowrun has.

 

[Elf Witch]

Elfwitch,

Ever think about trying old school OD&D or a knock off like Labyrinth Lords? If you've played the new versions of the game, the old one can seem fresh again. There is far less "design" work for creating PC's. Roll the PC's up the hard way 3d6.

Your DM is a natural for LL because she's very creative. There are lots of resources for her to draw from. She will have to house rule on things but she seems a fair minded person from all you've posted. She might find the old versons a refreshing treat for a few sessions.

How much fun would it be to watch your "powergaming" friend have to switch systems?

I will check out Labyrinth Lords. I have thought about running an AD&D game. They did have a very different feel. I don't know if it is nostalgia but I don't remember some of the issues that I have croppping up as often back then.

Though I do remember powers and skills coming out and an issue with munchkins raising its ugly head.

I have thought about an E6 campaign but everyone I mention it to goes ugh they don't think it will be fun. Because they think you get stuck at 6 level and never improve anything.

 

[epicbob]

@ Virel

If I understand all the replies correctly, the general consensus is that the GM, while experienced, has communication issues.

 

[Elf Witch]

@ Virel

If I understand all the replies correctly, the general consensus is that the GM, while experienced, has communication issues.

From what I have read I think this sounds true. And if you can't communicate then the game most likely will not get better.

I have been in that situation with a DM and I had to make s a decision do I just accept this is how he is and try and fun anyway or to not play with him as the DM.

As others have suggested talk to your DM see if you can get on the same page.

 

[Rune]

I have thought about an E6 campaign but everyone I mention it to goes ugh they don't think it will be fun. Because they think you get stuck at 6 level and never improve anything.

That was my brother's initial reaction. Once he realized that you stop growing upward at 6th level, but continue growing outward, he began to see how awesome it would be. And it isawesome.

(If you're curious how it has played out, so far, it is being chronicled in this thread. But, no one has gotten to level 6, yet. Also, it's a fable, so it's different kind of game, even for E6.)