Is this NPC too tough?

[Gundark]

I want a end fight for a party of 10th level characters (or equal to 10th level). The CR will be around 13 or 14

gnome rogue/wizard/arcane trickster

moon elf rogue/ranger/assasin

Grey dwarf fighter

Asimar Cleric


I created a Night Hag Rogue and used rogue as a non associated class (as per the MM)
here's the stat block created with etools. What do you think? Should Rogue be an non associated class?

Night Hag Outsider8/Rog8: CR 13; Medium Outsider (Evil,Extraplanar); HD 8d8+56(Outsider) , 8d6+56(Rogue) ; hp 193; Init +9; Spd 20; AC:27 (Flatfooted:27 Touch:15); Atk +22/17/12 base melee, +19/14/9 base ranged; +17/+24/+22 (2d6+4, Bite; 1d6+11, +3 Sword, short; 1d6+4, Sword, short, Masterwork); SA: Dream Haunting (Su) , Spell-like Abilities Detect Chaos 8 At Will Detect Evil 8 At Will Detect Good 8 At Will Detect Law 8 At Will Detect Magic 8 At Will Magic Missile 8 At Will Sleep 8 At Will Ray of Enfeeblement 8 At Will Polymorph 8 At Will Etherealness 8 At Will ; SQ: Immunity: Fire (Ex), Immunity: Cold (Ex), Immunity: Charm (Ex), Immunity: Sleep Effects (Ex), Immunity: Fear (Ex), Damage Reduction (Su): 10/Cold Iron, Damage Reduction (Su): 10/Magic, Spell Resistance (Ex): 25, No Dual Nature (Ex), Darkvision (Ex): 60 ft., Subtype: Evil, Subtype: Extraplanar; AL NE; SV Fort +15, Ref +17, Will +11; STR 26, DEX 20, CON 24, INT 12, WIS 16, CHA 14.
Skills: Bluff +21, Concentration +26, Diplomacy +19, Hide +24, Intimidate +23, Listen +22, Move Silently +24, Ride +17, Sense Motive +22, Spot +22.

Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Dodge, Improved Critical: Sword, short, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Armor, Mobility, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Sword, short.
Possessions:
Weapons: +3 Sword, short (18,310 gp); Sword, short, Masterwork (310 gp).

 

[pogre]

I think she's going to be rough on them. However, at a +3 EL this is what you are looking for - I cannot answer the question about associated class.

 

[Sammael]

Too many hit points, too high of an AC, with added DR, SR, immunities, evasion, uncanny dodge... she is way too tough for the party. I'd guesstimate the CR at about 15, which is 5 levels higher than the party - doable, but one or more PCs will die.

 

[gtJormungand]

Rogues are too generic to be a non-associated class. Those should really only be used with wizards and sorcerers, since there are plenty of monsters that are tough, but don't have the ability scores to be potent advesaries as such.

 

[Darkness]

Compared to a nalfeshnee (CR 14), she has:

2 HD more (relevant for some spells whose effects are based on HD)
18 hp more
worse Spd
same AC (but better ff and way better touch)
better attack bonus on her primary attack (by 2)
more attacks
rogue abilities (Sneak Attack +4d6, improved uncanny dodge, evasion)
slightly less dangerous (Sp) abilities - slightly (polymorph can do a lot)
more immunities (but fewer resistances)
better SR (by 3)
almost the same saves, but distributed differently (but that +17 Reflex is nasty with evasion)
and some other differences that aren't as relevant (e.g., fewer skills)

I'd say she's a more dangerous combat encounter than a nalfeshnee, likely a CR 15.

 

[shilsen]

How many people in the PC party?

 

[Darkness]

How many people in the PC party?

Apparently four:

gnome rogue/wizard/arcane trickster

moon elf rogue/ranger/assasin

Grey dwarf fighter

Asimar Cleric

 

[shilsen]

Apparently four:

That'll teach me to read more carefully!

In that case, Gundark, I'd say the PCs have about a 50% chance of winning, and if less than two die against this NPC, you're not trying hard enough. If I used that NPC against that party, it would be a TPK, but I'm hoping you're a nicer man than me.

 

[Darkness]

Yeah, it looks quite deadly.

Assuming all PCs are 10th level, the gnome is a 7th-level caster at most, and the aasimar 9th.
Without Spell Penetration and similar abilities, they have a chance of 15% and 25%, respectively, to pierce the hag's SR.
Also, her saves, immunities and evasion will take care of a lot of spells that do get through the SR.

Further, thanks to IUD, the gnome and the elf can't get flanking sneak attacks (only a Rog12+ could).

Not even grappling her would be easy:

Duergar Ftr9 = BAB +9
Enlarged = Size Large (+4 to grapple vs. the M hag)
Str 24 (assumption: 16 base + 2 levels + 2 enlarge + 4 item or bull's strength spell)

I.e., a total grapple bonus of +20. The hag has +20 as well (+12 BAB +8 Str). The other PCs might tip the balance. Alas, the hag also has polymorph (self).

That leaves the PCs with buffing and direct attacks, basically. The duergar should hit her well enough with his primary attack. Not so sure about the others...


Still, if the PCs have excessively high ability scores (like, 50-point point-buy), they'll have it a little easier, of course.

 

[sullivan]

It will depend a lot of the gear and ability scores of those PCs. With a SR 25 and that immunity list you're likely looking at primarily weapon damage to bring down. Given that rogues often (although not always) rely heavily on Sneak damage, and there will be no Sneak vs. this opponent and that's a rogue heavy party they are likely going to be in for a rough ride. Can you give a rough idea of the gear, spell usually memorized, weapon tohit/dmg, HPs, etc?