Is this what you went through with 3rd Edition?

[Lackhand]

4E - Is this what you went through with 3rd Edition?

Yes.

 

[Dausuul]

So, do you think that this furor over 4th Edition is going to turn out to be much the same sort of panic at change and then coming to like the new edition?
If you are proudly anti-4E, what can you tell me to convince me that this time you really mean it?

I think it's going to be pretty much the same, yes. Most players will switch right away or within a few months. Most of the people currently complaining will take a bit longer, but in the end they too will be assimilated. A handful will defy 4E forever, just like the folks who still play 2E or 1E or Classic to this very day--and yes, there are such people, not a few of whom post on this board.

 

[Darth Cyric]

In some ways 3e is the best edition to date, but also the worst.

Perfect.

 

[kenmarable]

I don't recall there being this level of dissent (but I could be remembering wrong). It was the exact same sort of stuff, but it seemed much more 80/20 or even 90/10 pro-against. This time, it's much closer (50/50, 60/40, 40/60 - depends on which messageboard and which forum within a messageboard you go to).

I'm certainly not anti-4e. There's some stuff I like about it. But there's enough that I don't like that - for me personally - I'll probably be sticking with 3.5 (or 3P - Pathfinder RPG). I was excited for 3e when it first came along because it seemed to largely keep what I liked and fixed much of what I didn't. With 4e, it's changing not just what I didn't like, but also a lot of what I *do* like. For me personally, the fixes have crossed the threshold of what I was comfortable with changing. To jump entirely to 4e, I would lose almost as much that I enjoy as I would gain. Tweaking 3.5 (with Pathfinder RPG or heavy house rules or whatever), I can have most of the fixes without losing what I still enjoy.

Besides, I play fast and loose enough with the rules when I DM, that I'd rather fudge numbers through a complicated high level combat than have a system with perfect math but fireballs aren't a handful of d6's, wizards don't have hundreds of spells each level to choose from (and each a couple paragraphs of some weird effect), the Great Wheel with the Blood War, having to wait a year (or more) for the content that I have already, and so on.

For some, what I have loved about the game since I was a kid are areas that they feel need fixing, and they probably love 4e. That's cool with me, I can understand that. But for me, from what I've seen so far, what I dislike about 4e far outweighs what I dislike about 3.5. So it'd be easier to hammer 3.5 into my perfect game than 4e. (And, for the record, I've been playing since red box days.)

Of course, once I try out 4e, I may be entirely wrong, but after the previews at D&DXP, I'm much less excited about 4e than I was beforehand.

 

[DandD]

D&D is all about playing fictional heroes beating the crap out of hideous monsters like succubi and catgirls with glasses.

 

[Psion]

Yep, I saw all the same complaints with 3e. This particular site was the last refuge of those who looked forward to 3e. Everywhere else, it was doom and gloom and end of the world. (And yes, Psion, I saw people say the exact same thing when 3e came out.)

Did I suggest they didn't? I was there on the frontlines.

Just saying, no, my experience is not the same this time around.

 

[Psion]

Playing fantasy heroes and beating the crap out of monsters for sweet stuff?

Let's just say I'm a bit more demanding about what I expect out of D&D.

 

[Dausuul]

I think the people who do stick with 3.0/3.5 are likely to be those who have well-established gaming groups, thus being not subject to the necessities of accommodating new players or accommodating themselves to new groups; and who have a lot of time and money invested in the existing system.

I also think they are likely to be among the less vehement anti-4E posters. Anyone who spends a lot of time going on about the horrors of 4E is clearly pretty interested in the new edition for some reason, whether it be dissatisfaction with the current edition or a suspicion that they will be forced to convert eventually (because their current group will convert or break up). One way or another, those people will mostly get pulled in, or quit the hobby.

By this point, most of those who are really deep-down committed to 3.5 have long since written off the new edition and ceased to pay attention to it.

 

[kenmarable]

Yes to the OP's question before the last.

Ppl like to complain. That will go away soon enough. (Does any significant amount of ppl still really play 2nd edition as a comparison?)

Just because they're quiet doesn't mean they converted. They aren't hanging around a 3e website in order to complain about 3e doesn't mean there aren't a good number of 2nd edition players out there.

Like probably everyone outside of Hasbro, I only have anecdotal evidence. About a third of the gamers I know are still with 2nd edition. They don't bother with any RPG websites because the websites don't have anything that interests them.

I'm sure the mass of 3.5 players crushes 2nd edition players statistically, but they are still out there even if you don't hear from them. When 4e comes around, there will be even more people splintering off to stay with 3.5. So conversion by everyone isn't guaranteed. However, I do agree that (thankfully) the complaints will die down as many will eventually convert and the rest will just quietly go about their games.

 

[billd91]

Did we see some of this? Sure did. And I was one of the skeptics when 3E was announced. But I figured the trend set by the Players Option books would be the basis for the development, and that fueled some of my skepticism. And for the most part the new changes were not based on Players Option and the more I learned about 3E, the more confident I became that the designers had done a good job.

But now we're coming from a pretty decent edition of D&D. I'd say the best yet (with a few exceptions involving specific powers and spells) rather than from a dead-end psuedo edition like Players Option. And, more importantly from my point of view, the more I hear about 4E, the more my skepticism grows.

So, did we see some of it and is the net effect going to be the same? We did see some of it but I don't think the net effect will be the same. I don't think 4e will have the same impact 3e had in bringing people back to the game. I think the changes are so dramatic in many cases that a larger proportion of D&D players will not adopt the new edition other than plundering it piecemeal for certain rule tweaks for their 3E games compared to the number of gamers who left 2e in favor of 3E. Why? Because it just isn't the game they know. The incrementalism of the previous edition changes has taken a bigger jump and that will naturally cause some potential adopters to fall off.