D&D 5E (2024) Is WOTC done publishing campaigns?

[GreyLord]

Its a fairly well known number now. It jumped up fast from a 50 million earlier claim.

Well, that's a very vague statement...but if that's what they are claiming (85 million)...

I'll beat them in the markets (already have, decreased HAS holdings, though still have some, and invested in better investments).

I'll stand by my numbers and let the fans of theirs believe blindly whatever HAS is putting out these days.

85 million...hah...someone over there has serious case of delusion. They honestly do not understand that is greater than the number of people living in the UK, almost 1/4 the population of the US, etc..etc...etc.

I'll take my football team and make a heck of lot more money than their D&D does with a lot less fans...because I know those are actual real people that spend real money...

But...hey. I still don't believe they have 85 current fans of D&D...but that article seemingly claims they have 85 million of..,something (you).

That said, the way I read that is NOT current fans. As I originally said (and the statement everyone of you seem to disagree with) back of page 9 of this post was this...

I could belive lifetime numbers of all those who have played D&D over 50 years, I could even believe that this is how many accounts are on Beyond (though, there are those with multiple accounts)....but when I look at the popularity of other popular items and then ask myself...is D&D really as popular as they are....

I come to very different conclusions on the popularity of D&D (no doubt, it is extremely popular and I'd even hazard that it's more popular than it was during the height of the TSR days...but more popular than some of the items I listed...I just can't suspend reality that far yet without better evidence than WotC is just feeding that number out there).

And I don't think that statement proves my statement wrong either. It's exactly as I said, people will claim that it says those are current fans, but there's no way. I think it's phrased that some may interpret it that way, but that article even references 50 years of the game...but...we will have to agree to disagree at this point.

I do not feel this is saying how many fans they currently have. It is not saying it has 85 million fans currently, and that the current iteration is on par with other items which have similar fan numbers during certain periods of time.

If anything, that is saying how many fans have been fans over the 50 year history of D&D. I think the statement is vague, but I still lean that this is what they were stating there in the first place.

You can interpret it how you want, but I do not think they were stating

1. How many current players there are of 5e
2. How many current fans there are of 5e or D&D
3. How many are paying or supporting D&D presently in any form

I do think that they may have inferred with someone else's guestimate (and I can't back them up on this one because I have no numbers to support them on this, I can only get up to 60 million and that's with ignoring a lot of overlap)...

1. This is how many fans (and not even necessarily players) of D&D there have been since it's inception over 50 years ago.

Don't agree with me...fine. I don't think anyone here has said anything to change my opinion with one exception...I will change my opninion that yes, WotC apparently has seemingly made the claim that D&D has (at some point, whether over a lengthy period, or other) has had 85 million fans.

 

[HatWearingFool]

So in 2020, WOTC claimed 40million fans… so by their own account (however they come up with that number) the number of fans more than doubled in 4 years.

WotC Thread 'Comparing EN World's Demographics to the D&D Community's'

Apr 25, 2020

WotC released some figures this week. I thought it would be fun to compare them to the demographics of our own little community here on EN World for the same period (2019).

WotC uses a metric it refers to as 40,000,000 'D&D Fans', but that's not defined. For the purposes of this, I assume a fan is a person who has interacted directly with D&D in some way (played a game, bought a book, watch a stream, played a video game, etc.) A fan's a fan, however they interact with D&D!

For comparison, I'm using people who have interacted with EN World in some way -- and what we can measure is...

• Morrus
• Replies: 393
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 

Also I see a lot references to ~”WOTC says 50million players over the lifetime of the game” around that same time frame (even referenced by the guardian, cnbc, etc) but I can’t find where they got that number.

 

[HatWearingFool]

Well, that's a very vague statement...but if that's what they are claiming (85 million)...

I'll beat them in the markets (already have, decreased HAS holdings, though still have some, and invested in better investments).

I'll stand by my numbers and let the fans of theirs believe blindly whatever HAS is putting out these days.

85 million...hah...someone over there has serious case of delusion. They honestly do not understand that is greater than the number of people living in the UK, almost 1/4 the population of the US, etc..etc...etc.

I'll take my football team and make a heck of lot more money than their D&D does with a lot less fans...because I know those are actual real people that spend real money...

But...hey. I still don't believe they have 85 current fans of D&D...but that article seemingly claims they have 85 million of..,something (you).

That said, the way I read that is NOT current fans. As I originally said (and the statement everyone of you seem to disagree with) back of page 9 of this post was this...



And I don't think that statement proves my statement wrong either. It's exactly as I said, people will claim that it says those are current fans, but there's no way. I think it's phrased that some may interpret it that way, but that article even references 50 years of the game...but...we will have to agree to disagree at this point.

As I just posted they went from a claimed 40 million in 2020 to 85mm in 2024. Even if that’s a life time stat basically more people became fans in 4 years than the entire 46 years before that…

 

[bedir than]

So in 2020, WOTC claimed 40million fans… so by their own account (however they come up with that number) the number of fans more than doubled in 4 years.

In that time a few things boosted fandom, per Google Trends and other marketing data -- Stranger Things S4, Honor Among Thieves, Baldur's Gate 3, 50th Anniversary attention, ST5

 

[HatWearingFool]

In that time a few things boosted fandom, per Google Trends and other marketing data -- Stranger Things S4, Honor Among Thieves, Baldur's Gate 3, 50th Anniversary attention, ST5

Yes my belief is strangers things fuelled the vast majority of that.

I was just making the point that even if that was lifetime that means more fans were created in 4 years than 46 years.

 

[bedir than]

Yes my belief is strangers things fuelled the vast majority of that.

I was just making the point that even if that was lifetime that means more fans were created in 4 years than 46 years.

oh, and the covid-boom

 

[mamba]

Also I see a lot references to ~”WOTC says 50million players over the lifetime of the game” around that same time frame (even referenced by the guardian, cnbc, etc) but I can’t find where they got that number.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/g-s1-23824/as-dungeons-dragons-turns-50-this-year-we-asked-listeners-for-their-stories-about-the-game-here-are-5

“The first edition of tabletop role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons was released 50 years ago this year.

Since then, the game's publisher, Wizards of the Coast, estimates that over 50 million people have played.”

 

[GreyLord]

As I just posted they went from a claimed 40 million in 2020 to 85mm in 2024. Even if that’s a life time stat basically more people became fans in 4 years than the entire 46 years before that…

Yes. This is where the PR fails for investors. If only 50% of those fans had just gone to their D&D HaT movie just once!...they would have made 200 million. Thats without even the general public, or anyone else going!

As per their numbers.

Their fans definitely are not as avid of fans as some markets would prefer fans to be.

Still, who knows...they aren't using my numbers for lifetime evaluations...but even with lifetime evalutions of fans...depending on your definition (if the question is...have you ever heard of D&D and someone says yes and that qualifies them to be a fan...for example) I suppose it could qualify under lifetime number of fans...

That's a different call from saying current fans though, and I note that every article which has them stating these things stays away from outright stating that this is the current number of fans or players (for good reason, if they did something like that and investors showed that this was impossible and that it could be construed as lying to investors...that gets into possible criminal territory).

Might not be the type of fans investors would be calling fans though...as investors kind of want the type of fan that actually spends money.

 

[GreyLord]

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/g-s1-23824/as-dungeons-dragons-turns-50-this-year-we-asked-listeners-for-their-stories-about-the-game-here-are-5

“The first edition of tabletop role-playing game Dungeons & Dragons was released 50 years ago this year.

Since then, the game's publisher, Wizards of the Coast, estimates that over 50 million people have played.”

That's an article from Sept 2024 and appears to be using more akin to my numbers.

Or is the idea that they increased the number of fans by 35 million in a matter of 3-4 months (time when the Beyond article seems to have been posted which was Dec. 2024).

Those numbers don't seem to add up...or something strange happened for that massive of a jump in a 4 month period.

Typo??? Maybe they meant 55 million instead of 85 million...seems more reasonable of a jump.

Though I will note, the NPR one specifies play....while the 85 million number seems like it grammatically could be referring to fans (earlier stated in the sentence) but in reality could be referring to anything.

 

[bedir than]

Yes. This is where the PR fails for investors. If only 50% of those fans had just gone to their D&D HaT movie just once!...they would have made 200 million. Thats without even the general public, or anyone else going!

As per their numbers.

so the movie would have made less money than it did...

of course nearly zero fans do 50% of everything they are a fan of.

I'm one of 311s biggest fans according to streaming services. I've only made a third of their local concerts. That doesn't make me a non fan