D&D 5E (2024) Is WOTC done publishing campaigns?

[Smackpixi]

So, if I understand correctly, unless you are actively shoveling money at WotC, you are not a fan of D&D?

 

[GreyLord]

So, if I understand correctly, unless you are actively shoveling money at WotC, you are not a fan of D&D?

From an investor viewpoint, you don't have to be shovelling money, but a fan that does not result in some money coming in somehow (and there is always an angle to get a fan to spend money, whether it's just a sticker, a t-shirt, begging a friend to make an account and then seeing ads that pay money...etc) coming it...it's not really a fan worth counting. I mean, even kids will go somewhere and see ads (that bring in money). There has to be some excitement somewhere, some way they participate in excitement...even if that translates into a player who gets their DM to spend money (hence why I think the 1:5 ratio works in the first place, that's not saying everyone in the group is buying a PHB...but someone in the group will in order for them all to use it...some may just use the free basic rules...or something else...etc).

So...not shoveling money, but excitement and involvement leads to money being spent...not necessarily a whale (and face it, only 1% or 2% are whales), but at least a minnow. (I think statistically they say around 10-20% will at least spend money on a product, which falls in line with 1/10 to 1/5, but with outiside involvement from others, other sources can push how much is spent upwards, even if still from only that lower percentage).

PS: Personally, I'd prefer you to spend money on quality items being produced, as both the company that made it and the person buying it both benefit from that transaction.

 

[Smackpixi]

I believe general investor sentiment is that however many “fans” D&D has, Wizards is absolutely pants at extracting meaningful revenue from them. Doesn’t means the fans don’t exist though; there are people on this forum who probably last spent money on an official D&D product in the 80’s but nevertheless have a drawerful of t-shirts with d20s on them they can deploy should they need to fly the flag.

 

[mamba]

That's an article from Sept 2024 and appears to be using more akin to my numbers.

Or is the idea that they increased the number of fans by 35 million in a matter of 3-4 months (time when the Beyond article seems to have been posted which was Dec. 2024).

these are two very different numbers, comparing lifetime players to current fans is comparing apples to oranges.

You are fine with one of WotC’s numbers but not the other without having much of a reason outside of how you feel about them.

I don’t have much of a reason to mistrust one of them more than the other. Knowing anything precise about a 50 year history seems to be somewhat dubious in its own right, I would expect them to have a better idea about the current number of players. The problem with the other is the unclear / vague definition of fan.

Those numbers don't seem to add up...or something strange happened for that massive of a jump in a 4 month period.

these number ‘add up’ if you are accepting that they are unrelated to each other, players <> fans…

I would not take either at face value, but I also would not reject one outright while kinda accepting the other without a better rationale than you are offering

 

[mamba]

And 50 million life time players was one year after claiming 40 million fans… were there more players than fans?

one is lifetime, the other is current?

 

[SkidAce]

hehe...

 

[SkidAce]

Just teasing folks.

 

[Reef]

Just teasing folks.

But still surprisingly accurate…

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I've pointed out the numbers. People are arguing that there are more fans than the population of the UK, of Nintendo in the 80s and early 90s, of Playstation during the late 90s and the 00s, etc when they argue that there are currently 80 million D&D fans.

Even now, they are arguing that. It's not hidden. That's why...all you have to do is read the thread and everyone who is arguing that it is...80 million current fans.

I've actually decreased my holdings in Hasbro, and most of the big investors don't believe that number in that way...because it's a fake number. (I should not though, that Hasbro itself is doing decently...it's next quarterly call is in around 4 days).

The small account holders may, which is why I'm going to point to this thread as evidence that the PR hype works.

Anyone who thinks that there are 80 million current fans of D&D (in relation to investments and money) has no idea how big a number that is and how that SHOULD normally translate to money in a company and investments.

Sure, it's not the biggest number, but I"m also no looking for D&D to be making 10s of Billions of dollars either. I am looking at it in how much of a realisitic investment into Hasbro one may consider, and those numbers people are spouting off about fans don't reflect the money I see Hasbro bringing in currently in that regards. If it were, D&D would be much bigger on their balance sheets (for example, I think they say they have 50 million MtG fans (meaninng those who have played it from 1993 until today) with 13 million digital accounts and only bring in around 1 billion a year with that.

MtG numbers at a glance

If people were arguing the same with D&D (50 million fans from when it began until now) I've already said I could accept that number possibly (with me even pointing out I was one of those who accounted to the 40 million and even 50 million could have been arrived at in one of my posts), but that's not what they are arguing. 80 million current fans doesn't just out strip Nintendo and Playstation in earlier years, it doesn't just outnumber the population of the UK, it llterally means there are more "fans" of it than there are of WotC's top brand...MtG!

You keep making these claims about what people are saying, but include no quotes.

Reading the thread nobody is saying what you're claiming they are.

So this is on you.

 

[Reynard]

Who cares?

I don't mean that to threadcrap. I'm serious. What difference does it make to YOU how many "fans" D&D "has"? I mean, if you are arguing one way or the other, the answer must matter to you, right?

For my part, only one thing matters: more active customers (whatever portion of the number of fans that is) should open up more opportunities for more and different books. It makes economic room for taking risks and serving small but dedicated portions of the fanbase.

Or it would if WotC had a innovative or experimental bone in its corporate body, or if Hasbro was not a publicly traded snorefest captured in endless inertia and quarterly profit acquisition.

The best entertainment is always created by independents. Just look at long running franchises in any medium who's owning companies get acquired.