Is WoTC even relevant to you anymore?

[bowbe]

Wild speculation doesn't make for a good argument.

If the Star Wars Roleplaying Game were so profitable you'd see full support and a book every month or so. As it is we barely get anything and much of it is dedicated to the miniatures game. This evidence points to the fact that Wizards of the Coast probably takes a (financial) beating on the RPG. QUOTE]

Plastic Miniatures are highly profitible and marketable even to those outside of the "Hobby Games" market as collectibles. Slap the word Star Wars on anything and its pure collector gold, no matter how crappy the toy or product (Star Wars Transformers anyone? I call them crappy because they break apart rather easily as one mommie was lamenting to me at her childs birthday party. Despite that fact, they had them all. Ones for the kids to play with and "mint" ones in the box.)

Core rule books, especially "New Edition Rules" for a game system no matter what the game also outstrap sales of ANY other printed and published supplement a game company could produce. This includes any module, splat book, setting, ect. To be honest I don't recall by what percent but I've been told it's substantial by a variety of publishers, retailers and distributors I have done business with over the years.

What does that mean? I don't know. That isn't my angle. I haven't seen the sales numbers from the Saga Edition. Does anyone have these? It certainly gets a ton of buzz on the half dozen message boards I am subscribed to. So if you want more "Wild Speculation" from me, it would be "Saga Edition is doing quite well for WOTC and Lucas LTD."

If the Star Wars Roleplaying Game were so profitable you'd see full support and a book every month or so?

See paragraph 3.

That said, I know that there have always been issues in dealings with "the Lucas people" according to a former lawyer for WOTC who dealt with the license. WOTC goes to "the Lucas people" with ideas on how to better market and expand the role, scope and sales of Star Wars and often hear a lot of "hmm no" or "hmm we'll think about it". My insider scoop? I sat in a seminar 5(almost 6) years ago in Vegas and heard it from the lawyers mouth, along with a pile of other people that were in the room at the time. Perhaps that has something to do with the limited amount of SW material they produce more than any desire to produce more?

That said, most of the peeps I know that have Saga Edition aren't even using it to play Star Wars. They have already cloned the rules set for use in whatever their favorite RPG style is. I know one guy in particular who has a whole slew of it translated for D20 style D&D, taking monsters from various sources and converting them to Saga Edition rules for personal use.

So... being how Star Wars Saga Edition rules are
A. (according to many) New and Innovative.
B. Star Wars.
C. A Core Rulebook

I conclude it is profitible, and thus the Star Wars license, with its collectible miniatures would also be a profit.

Excuse my wild speculation as to the profits made or lost between CCGs and Board Games. Although according to you these profits are negligible compared to the behemoth that is the D&D license my only point was that WOTC won't "cease to exist" simply if Hasbro were to pull the franchise license from them and pass it to a different entity in their umbrella entertainment empire. Yes that is wild speculation on my part.

I didn't say however that it would happen. Several times I mentioned later in my post that it wouldn't EVEN if D&D 4e tanked for them, merely that it could. My theory ultimately is better surmised by Hobo's post. Even at a loss, keeping the franchise and all of that IP is well within WOTCs and Hasbro's interest to maintain.

Case

 

[Mokona]

Core rule books, especially "New Edition Rules" for a game system no matter what the game also outstrap [sic] sales of ANY other printed and published supplement a game company could produce. This includes any module, splat book, setting, ect. To be honest I don't recall by what percent but I've been told it's substantial by a variety of publishers, retailers and distributors I have done business with over the years.

Again, what you say just isn't true. D&D is in a class of its own. Nothing outsells top supplements like Complete Warrior or Draconomicon except other Dungeons & Dragons books.

Right now the four (4) year old Player's Handbook is ranked #4,314 on Amazon.com easily besting Star Wars Saga Edition which is only ranked #6,568. Monster Manual V also ranks better at #2,671. Or, frankly, your average "Friendly Local Game Store" could show you the same if they opened their sales records to you.

I'm not trying to refute the notion that Star Wars would be an adequate fall back position :\ if Wizards of the Coast lost D&D. My goal is to prevent nonsense comments about what works in game publishing.

 

[bowbe]

Dude,

Your data is Amazon.com sales numbers? Skewed data at best.

Remember, part of Amazon's numbers are related to how many copies are available to Amazon.

You're also pointing your whole argument against my assertion that "WOTC still has Star Wars" vs. the rest of my argument, ignoring any of the other points.

Case

 

[Uder]

There are a lot of modules that I had forgotten.

There are also a lot of reprints there. Are you counting each reprint of WotC items as seperate products? Moreover, if we are including modules in our product lists, why don't we include miniatures?

Nonetheless, when we are talking about the rules burden placed on DMs of various editions, which is the context in which you raised this point, modules are hardly the same thing as hardcover splatbooks, are they?

I think you've got the right idea, only seperate products with unique product numbers should count. D3 and D3 with a full color cover are the same product, but D1 and D1-2 are not. Of course, you may not want to count minis if you're going by SKU. There were a *boatload* of minis produced for 1E. Citadel AD&D, Grenadier AD&D, TSR's own AD&D line, and a huge variety of Greyhawk wargaming minis (I forget who made this last bunch, and IIRC there were no monster figures). I'm not sure, but I think there were other manufacturer's too (I want to say Heritage, but I think they just made clones).

 

[Maggan]

So, then, presumably you would not disagree that WotC has put out far more rules content than 1e,

Rules? Yes.

vastly increasing the burdern of rules knowledge for the DM than existed under 1e or (say) RC D&D.

Burden? No. A man only carries the burden he himself choses, when it comes to rules for 3rd edition.

/M

 

[Turanil]

WoTC could just about go out of business and I think I'd hardly miss them at all.


Anyone else in the same boat?

Another yes-man here...

 

[chaotix42]

I'm beginning to think that Wizards is quite relevant. I want to see how quickly this topic falls off the front page after I post. : P

 

[Razz]

After hearing 4E is being released, WotC isn't relevant to me anymore.

 

[Wormwood]

I'm beginning to think that Wizards is quite relevant. I want to see how quickly this topic falls off the front page after I post. : P

I already posted way back on page one...but the announcement of 4e (and the DI) has *cemented* my relationship with Wizards.

More relevant than ever before.

 

[Imaro]

I'll tell you who just became relevant to me...and it ain't WotC. It's Moongose and their Runequest line, such as the Lankhmar and Eternal Champion lines. Real sword and sorcery is more to my taste any way. and there was no nominal fee for their Player's Update.