Is WoTC even relevant to you anymore?

[Vocenoctum]

You mean, like that statement?

I run into opinions on the internet all the time.

Just because someone fails to write IMHO YMMV YDMB after each sentence of each post doesn't mean that they are stating "facts" (even in their own minds).

Well, that's true or not, or whatever, but has nothing to do with folks posting that they're not buying 4e because it will be DDM based, or that they hate WotC for what it's going to do. Granted lots of these posts are meaningless, but it's not about the "fact" that 4e won't be OGL, so much as the point someone is posting to say they're not buying any more WotC because 4e will be OGL.

And, yes, I know that people state the "facts" as they know them frequently, I tend to think we should give posters saying "the fact is...." as much leeway as we do speakers saying the same thing.

I don't believe them when they state something random as a fact, so sure they get the same leeway. But, it's a different thing to say "folks that say it's a fact don't really mean fact" vs "no one ever said it's a fact". Granted you said you never saw it, but it's still an odd semantic sidetrek that has little to do with my Dunce Avatar idea.

 

[Maggan]

I'd want to see the list of books for each company before I'd accept that as a "fact".

RC

You can simply do as I did, go to www.hitpointe.com, and count the titles they've listed for the seperate editions. That's where I grabbed my data.

TSR put out a lot for 2nd ed. A lot. Lots and lots and lots.

/M

 

[Raven Crowking]

You can simply do as I did, go to www.hitpointe.com, and count the titles they've listed for the seperate editions. That's where I grabbed my data.

TSR put out a lot for 2nd ed. A lot. Lots and lots and lots.

I believe that the initial quote you made had to do with 1e, which was a different animal than 2e altogether. If the question is "were there more 2e or 3e books?" then I'd be stumped indeed. It was your "And they just passed 1st edition a year ago" that twigged me.

1e was, what? DMG, PHB, MM, MMII, FF, UA, DSG, WSG, OA, MotP, D&D, GHA, & DLA for hardcovers, right? Assuming that we aren't discussing new printings/reprints.

3e is, what? DMG, PHB, MM, MMII, MMIII, FF, UA, OA, MotP, D&D, and then you'll have to tell me what to exclude because of release date from Hero Builder's Guidebook, Psionics Handbook, Complete Warrior, Draconomicon, Complete Adventurer, Races of Destiny, Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, Frostburn, Weapons of Legacy, Stormwrack, Planar Handbook, MMIV, MMV, Libris Mortis, Complete Arcane, Races of the Wild, Heroes of Battle, Book of Exalted Deeds, Complete Divine, Savage Species, Arms & Equipment Guide, Book of Vile Darkness, Heroes of Horror, DMG II, PHB II, Ghostwalk, Magic of Incarnum, Spell Compendium, Races of the Dragon, Races of Stone, Miniatures Handbook, and Expanded Psionics Handbook. And the Forgotten Realms CS, Eberron CS, Bo9S, MIC, and Tome of Magic.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something on one list or the other, but from where I'm sitting, that's 35 for WotC vs 13 for TSR 1e, so that WotC would have had to put out 2/3rds of its hardcovers in the last year to have just passed 1st Edition a year ago.

Now, I didn't go into modules, supplementary products, or softcover products, but I'm betting that WotC has passed TSR 1e long ago no matter how you slice it, and is hard on the heels of 2e (if it hasn't passed 2e yet). I mean, 2e was about as many hardcovers as 1e, and a lot of softcovers....but a lot of the 2e class softcovers have 3e softcover equivilents. It would take a while to tally them all up.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

I think a far more relevant question is:

"Am I still relevant to WotC?"

Very interesting question. I believe I'm not relevant anymore. I'm out of their target demographic being near 40 and I have too many fond memories of OD&D and 1/2e.

 

[The Eternal GM]

I'm actually more or less a strictly WotC 'only' player and DM.

Mostly for reference and (vague!) balance. When I go to a group, or a group comes to me, I don't want them pulling out some damned odd D20 supplement that I've never heard of, full of ridiculous crap that they INSIST on playing...

Rather than saying not that company/not that line/not that book/not those pages infinitely, it's just much easier to say 'If WotC didn't publish it for 3.5, it ain't happening.'

Though, this doesn't apply if we're playing anything outside of D20 D&D-based games... Obviously.

 

[Mark Chance]

Is WoTC even relevant to me anymore?

Not really. For every good idea WoTC expects me to pay for, I can find five ideas just as good for free. I haven't paid for a WoTC product in years, and even then I didn't pay full price. They just aren't worth the money.

 

[der_kluge]

I'm actually more or less a strictly WotC 'only' player and DM.

Mostly for reference and (vague!) balance. When I go to a group, or a group comes to me, I don't want them pulling out some damned odd D20 supplement that I've never heard of, full of ridiculous crap that they INSIST on playing...

Rather than saying not that company/not that line/not that book/not those pages infinitely, it's just much easier to say 'If WotC didn't publish it for 3.5, it ain't happening.'

Though, this doesn't apply if we're playing anything outside of D20 D&D-based games... Obviously.

Right - because we know that all the WoTC writers who happen to publish D20 stuff become completely insane once the product loses it's WoTC logo on the spine. :\

If your players are like mine, most of them don't even bother to buy d20 stuff anyway, but I'll be happy to at least consider anything from any publisher. I just ask to be able to look over it first.

 

[Gundark]

I've heard that one before. It sounded like this: "If TSR goes down, so does the hobby at large."

Not that I want WotC to go down...I don't...but the hobby exists because we enjoy playing these sorts of games, not because of any corporation. At the very least, I would still run games without the least bit of trouble. I suspect you would be able to as well.

In fact, that there are so many people still playing 1e, RC D&D, and even OD&D, should tell you that a game doesn't have to be in print to be alive.

RC

TSR had another large company to pick up the license. Who is there to pick it up from WotC?
True the hobby exists because there are people playing the games. I also think it's correct to say that the hobby exists because new stuff comes out. Sounds dumb? I don't think so...how many people started roleplaying again becasue 3rd edition was all shiny and new? I'm getting back into Warhammer 40k cause there is a new set of rules and a new codex for my army. There are people who are burned out on 3.5 who are looking forward to 4th ed.

True a dead WotC wouldn't kill the hobby....however it keeps it healthy

 

[Mokona]

They Still Have Star Wars
The Star Wars license and miniatures alone are enough to keep them in biscuits and gravy for the long haul. With the eventual release of the Star Wars TV show(s) and their inevitable game tie ins they have another solid decade or longer of hobby games goodness to rely on. Despite the cut that Lucas LTD takes (heh... Lucas LTD takes it from Hasbro too) its still well enough $$ to keep WOTCs doors open.

Add to that their avalon hill line, and all the pennies on the dollar they get from every mother's son that creates a new "collectible card game" and WOTC is going nowhere... its just a slim possibility that they go nowhere without D&D.

Wild speculation doesn't make for a good argument.

If the Star Wars Roleplaying Game were so profitable you'd see full support and a book every month or so. As it is we barely get anything and much of it is dedicated to the miniatures game. This evidence points to the fact that Wizards of the Coast probably takes a (financial) beating on the RPG. I hope Saga changes this but I'll believe it when I see it. D20 Modern saw a similar decrease in support material when it became clear that sales weren't that high.

Briefly we saw a flurry of Avalon Hill board games but that too has fallen off except for Axis & Allies expansions. The decrease in releases and the low rankings on hobby industry sales charts indicate poor cash flows from the board games. I'm sure Randy Buehler hopes to change this with the Gleemax digital initiative when Wizards won't have to share revenue with your "Friendly Local Game Store" or manufacture expensives playing pieces.

They are still relevant and D&D is key to that fact.

 

[Moggthegob]

Well the thnig about 3rd party sutff even if it comes out from a guy i trust that doesnt mean anythin g. I mean Richard Baker, while putting out a number of products iLike has put out a few things that I would never ever allow or use. Like warlock. That said 3rd paty people have done things more agregious than warlock.

itsn ot the third party I havet he issue with its the precedents i set and that if i am going to spend money on the hobby itll be from wotc mainly. That said if a 3rd party book is recieving rave reviews and,after i have a copyin my hand reviewing it it looks alright ill buy.
howver afterb eng burned a few times I will not buy AEG or White wolf ever again. the yare so much more miss than hit.