Is WOTC falling into a problem like the old TSR did

[yipwyg42]

I am wondering if WOTC is falling into a sort of problem that TSR did. Back in the 2nd edition version of D&D it was settings. Tons of settings and accessories was very bad for the market. With 3.x currently I am seeing an avalanche of feats, prestige classes, does not look like it is stopping anytime soon.

Along with all of the feats and prestige classes, we have

alternative class abilities
Tricks (complete scoundrel)
systems like Incarnum, Pact Magic, Book of 9 swords etc.....

All of these things are fine by themselves but when mixed with others from different books, things can break down really fast.

In my mind choice is good, but too many choices can be a headache.

Thoughts

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Well, I'm sure you'll get plenty of "you don't have to use it" responses, which are correct. Nevertheless, I think there's some "too much of a good thing" fatigue out here.

 

[molonel]

The phrase I think you are looking for is "Rules Bloat." And yes, they are. I now have Tome and Blood, The Complete Arcane and The Complete Mage on my shelf, and even though the Complete Mage has some excellent work in it, I just didn't read it with as much interest as I might have a couple of years ago. The ToB just didn't interest me. I'm done buying, and too busy playing. Most of my gaming money, anymore, goes into figurines and stuff to put on the battlemap.

 

[Crothian]

Not only do you not have to buy all the books, are there really that many people that do? I know I sure don't. I only buy the ones I think I might like. And even when running a game I don't use them all. I limit the books to what first the setting. And then the four character concepts that get made by the players limits the books that will get used even further.

Even so the TSR problem was too many settings. The books we are getting now are easier to use and being interested in one book line does not mean that the other book lines are completely useless for you.

 

[yipwyg42]

One of the books I was planning on getting was Complete Scoundrel, then I heard about the Tricks being sort of like minor feats using skill points to buy them.

So now you have a feat every three levels, and I believe up to 10 tricks (at level 20). I have a feeling my DM will not allow it. This is mainly due with the potential combinations of feat, prestige class, tricks that will be available now, and the potential ways the rules could break.

I think I'm only going to have my characters in my friends games only use PHB, PHB 2, and skip the prestige classes aspect.

I had one person in my group make a swordsage, after 3 game days of playing it, she asked if she can just make her a straight fighter (it was way to complicated for her).

 

[Glyfair]

Even so the TSR problem was too many settings. The books we are getting now are easier to use and being interested in one book line does not mean that the other book lines are completely useless for you.

I think that was considered the problem. For the most part, groups played in one or maybe two different published campaign settings. Every setting drew some players from the other settings (at least as far as purchases go) and reduced the viability of each setting.

This was compounded by the fact that the settings were often very different from the standard settings. While differences are important for making a setting stand out, that limits your audience. How many things is a Forgotten Realms DM going to pull from Dark Sun?

Right now my D&D games take place in Eberron. However, I can pick up many Forgotten Realms books and use most of them in my Eberron game. In fact, Monsters of Faerun has seen a lot of use.

 

[sckeener]

There are certain products that one produces towards the end of a product line. We are currently in that phase. The only question is how long it will go on....the rules bloat of 2nd ed went on for a long long time.

This isn't bad news. You do not have to buy everything or use everything, but it does give WotC a chance to test out alternatives. Some of these alternatives, the ones that gain traction or look like they will gain traction will be in the new product line.

 

[Crothian]

There are certain products that one produces towards the end of a product line.

Really, like what?

 

[JVisgaitis]

This is exactly why I think we are in the waning years of 3e. I'd really love to see numbers on these new products myself as the last thing I bought was PHBII. I don't buy a lot of books, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that buy everything just because it has a WotC logo on it.

 

[Psion]

The phrase I think you are looking for is "Rules Bloat." And yes, they are.

Pretty much.

I've already shelved Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum with no intention to use. I am at the point where I pretty much have most rules support I need. Adding more rules complication. . . well, I think S. John Ross said it well when he opined that when considering changes to a game, you should only do it if the pounds of fun to pounds of work ratio is in the favor of fun. And I see diminishing returns of how much fun I get the more rules get added.

I'm really not looking for new rules variants. I need creative applications.