Is Wotc Slipping?

[Deset Gled]

Or "taking" fewer customers than naive interpretation of sales would suggest.

...

It is not valid to assume that people who buy Pathfinder are not also buying 4e products, or vice versa.

Kinda yes, kinda no.

You are certainly correct about the fact that buying Pathfinder does not preclude buying D+D products. However, it's also true that gamer's funds are not infinite. A customer who buys a Pathfinder book is less likely to buy another D+D book. It's probably more accurate to say that Pathfinder is taking sales, not customers.

 

[Umbran]

However, it's also true that gamer's funds are not infinite. A customer who buys a Pathfinder book is less likely to buy another D+D book.It's probably more accurate to say that Pathfinder is taking sales, not customers.

Less likely, by how much? A lot? A little? We can surely find some people who have said they have limited funds, and only buy one or the other, no problem. Folks who are driven to one side or the other exist, sure. But how many? What percentages of the customers?

The discussion depends in large part upon how big the overlap is. And even if WotC and Piazo laid all their sales data on the table for us to peruse, we still wouldn't have that information.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

The evidence does not show Pathfinder is 'beating' 4e.

Heh heh. Sure. Sure it doesn't. Heh heh.

 

[xechnao]

If one pays some attention to the relevant internet discussion channels since Essentials were launched, he will get the impression that Pathfinder sales are overtaking the 4e ones.

The cause seems to be that Essentials managed to spread confusion to the fan base and the succeeding publishing schedule to be canceled with no solid newer schedule to be replacing it.

So, the Wotc D&D publishing operations lie on a totally lower profile than what had been going on till Essentials were launched.

What message does this situation convey? Not a highly optimistic one I presume.

 

[Argyle King]

I've recently heard that WoTC is moving away from the 'everything is core' idea.

While I think that is smart, I do have to ask: does that mean they are changing gears a second time while already in the middle of the Essentials change?

...or does it mean Essentials (and other things) were part of a bigger gear change in a manner more akin to 3.5's Book of 9 Swords, 3.5's Knight Class, and other such forerunners of a future game?

 

[Retreater]

Competition has to be good for the hobby in the short and long term.

IME, I have to disagree with that. I've seen the disintegration of long-established gaming groups, unbridled anger between hobbyists, and the death of numerous game stores that can argue the point that not enough players are supporting a single gaming system, causing the collapse of the hobby.

PF doesn't have the brand recognition or easy entry point to lure in new gamers. 4E can't draw in enough of the PF crowd/3.5 fans. Hence, both systems are doomed to become niche products of a niche hobby.

Just from my local experience.

Retreater

 

[Argyle King]

IME, I have to disagree with that. I've seen the disintegration of long-established gaming groups, unbridled anger between hobbyists, and the death of numerous game stores that can argue the point that not enough players are supporting a single gaming system, causing the collapse of the hobby.

PF doesn't have the brand recognition or easy entry point to lure in new gamers. 4E can't draw in enough of the PF crowd/3.5 fans. Hence, both systems are doomed to become niche products of a niche hobby.

Just from my local experience.

Retreater

...or another game will gain ground; I've noticed a few books for other games moving up the rankings lately

...or the two companies will put more effort into their product. It worked for 90s era pro wrestling.

 

[Wicht]

PF doesn't have the brand recognition or easy entry point to lure in new gamers.

The fact that a thing does not exist at the moment does not preclude it being created in the future. No company ever started with universal brand recognition and yet new house-hold names are being created every day.

 

[Azgulor]

IME, I have to disagree with that. I've seen the disintegration of long-established gaming groups, unbridled anger between hobbyists, and the death of numerous game stores that can argue the point that not enough players are supporting a single gaming system, causing the collapse of the hobby.

PF doesn't have the brand recognition or easy entry point to lure in new gamers. 4E can't draw in enough of the PF crowd/3.5 fans. Hence, both systems are doomed to become niche products of a niche hobby.

Just from my local experience.

Retreater

The collapse of the whole hobby? Really?

Also, if a gaming store's entire business was built around D&D sales (or any other single line of products), I'm not surprised such a business would fail...

 

[Deset Gled]

PF doesn't have the brand recognition or easy entry point to lure in new gamers. 4E can't draw in enough of the PF crowd/3.5 fans. Hence, both systems are doomed to become niche products of a niche hobby.

Umm... Pen and paper RPGs are already a niche hobby. Have been for years. Compared the overall market of RPGs to video games, CCGs, movies, etc, we're barely a blip on the radar.