D&D 5E It’s Official: I don’t like 5th Edition Wizards and ‘Specialists’

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dco

Guest
You can choose the same spells, I think the main differentiation comes from the concentration rule. You can not have some illusions casted and at the same time cast a phantasmal force for example, the 5e illusionist is a one trick pony compared to ther editions, he can only cast one illusion most of times.
 

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Gadget

Adventurer
When you say "Old School Illusionist feel", I immediately think of the AD&D 1e Illusionist, which was a separate class from the wizard, complete with its own spell list (though there was, of course, some overlap with the wizard). And yeah, it does not have quite that feel. You could, you know, forgo selecting spells outside the flavor you desire, but this may involve gimping your character in some way, depending on what you desire for flavor as wizards are sometimes expected to have the right spell for the job, and balanced accordingly.

However, you mention Pathfinder, so maybe you mean 3.x specialist feel, which I would not refer to as "old school", but maybe I'm getting old. Personally, I think 5e's implementation of specialties is the best D&D has ever had, though I admit some of the abilities could use some redesign and balancing. I've never understood the call for a 'generalist' wizard, as wizards pretty much already are, with just some additional abilities in a specific area. As already mentioned, 5e has a lot of 'Arcane classes' that might be able to replicate the feel of a more narrow specialist, though none of them exactly replicate the illusionist of yesteryear. Lore Bard could make a good run at it, as well as Fey or GOO pack Warlock with the right invocations and boons. Even the Arcane Trickster might make a Mad Hatter feel with its focus on Illusion and Enchantment.

When I think about it, an Illusion/Trickery sub-class for the Sorcerer might be ideal, with access to more spells of that nature; but there is already quite a bit of 'blast' spells on to the Sorcerer spell list.
 

5ekyu

Hero
You can choose the same spells, I think the main differentiation comes from the concentration rule. You can not have some illusions casted and at the same time cast a phantasmal force for example, the 5e illusionist is a one trick pony compared to ther editions, he can only cast one illusion most of times.
That is true. A possible approach cpuld be to replace some of the current bonuses with one additional dedicated conxentration slot to the school spells. The balance implication abound however. Not close to suggesting this would balance easily across schools.

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You can choose the same spells, I think the main differentiation comes from the concentration rule. You can not have some illusions casted and at the same time cast a phantasmal force for example, the 5e illusionist is a one trick pony compared to ther editions, he can only cast one illusion most of times.

I hadn't even got this far but Thank You. That's a concern to the House Rule I would use.

So, how to attack the concentration problem in a balanced way?
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
I hadn't even got this far but Thank You. That's a concern to the House Rule I would use.

So, how to attack the concentration problem in a balanced way?

I don't think this is specific to illusionists, it is a general change to casters in 5e. If it is part of what you don't like then I think it is a harder fix (unless you're happy to just ignore concentration requirements.)
 

Li Shenron

Legend
You had me right up to wrong. I was trying to avoid saying that the way 5e does Specialists is wrong and going down thewrong-bad-fun rabbit hole. I'm not ready to say its wrong until I know that I'm not getting something or doing something wrong myself.

I just find 5e Specialists lacking something. But I do think that your mention of spell lists and forbidden spells helped me crystallize my amorphous thoughts better.

Well I did put "wrong" purposefully under quotes :) and used it for lack of a better term.

Generally speaking, for my tastes it felt a bit "wrong" narratively that a specialist was completely forbidden to learn a group of spells, since the Wizard is all about study (I had no problems with clerics of good deities being forbidden to use evil spells). Always felt as if someone said that a Fighter specialising in sword and board should be forbidden to ever learn how to use a bow.

But since you fairly pointed out that it sounds like bringing up badwrongfun, I correct myself and just say that while the Wizard was my 3e favourite class, I personally found the concept of forbidden schools for specialists simply not fun for me.
 

Arilyn

Hero
I find it hard to make some kinds of specialists because of the imbalance of numbers of spells available in schools. Evokers? No problem. Diviners or Necromancers? Much trickier. This makes adding house rules to limit specialist choice problematic. If I'm having problems finding divination spells for my diviner at some levels, it's going to be extra annoying to be denied one of two other schools as well. There's always been some imbalance in DnD with spell numbers in schools, but 5e is worse. I really wish WOTC would address this problem, or that it had never been allowed to happen in first place.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
I agree that if you really want strong specialization, you're going to have to make up more spells.
 

Tallifer

Hero
I was born in 1965, but since 2008, the old comfortable feel has been 4th Edition and its controller Wizards.

sorcerer.jpg
 

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cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I will often build my 5e wizards with a nod to 2e. That is, if I am making an illusionist, I will make his dexterity his second highest stat. An enchanter would have a high charisma etc. Other than that, you need to choose spells to suit the specialisation. That might meant that your illusion wielding gnome wizard doesn't have any flashy spells like fireball or lightning bolt, instead sticking to illusion and other non obvious spells.

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