D&D (2024) It feels so much like the D&D Next playtest did

[Parmandur]

Response online to the playtest Sorcerer was more positive than to several other less-changed playtest classes, and whilst it could be misleading, I really doubt it's that misleading.

I recall it being said that the surveys were telling WotC that forum discourse was close to the opposite of what their survey reception said. I really wouldn't trust any discussion in limited forum circles to reflect what WotC got in surveys. They got 7 figure response rates in the surveyea, and even dndnext today on Reddit is a fraction of that. Surely the number of people actively posting here at any time is a miniscule fraction, miniscule enough that wild swings from broader survey results would be expected.

 

[Rikka66]

It's definitely notable that the dndnext subreddit has gradually declined in quality as people there have got more and more knee-jerk-y. It feels like a lot of open-minded new players from 2014/15/16 are ghastly junior grogs now. I mean, not surprising, really, 3.XE had that happen in the same time period. Some people were new to D&D entirely in say, 2000, and knee-jerk grogs with attitudes by 2007. And with videogames, particularly MMOs, grogification can often take less than five years, so yeah.

A particularly common and unfortunate pattern I've seen is that someone posts misinformation/a misunderstanding, but does so in a very bossy and confident way (even though it is the confidence of the stupid), then it gets upvoted and positively commented on by, frankly, a bunch of baaaing sheep (sorry but I dunno how else to put that), then someone corrects the misunderstanding within minutes, and whilst the correction will get upvoted (often more purely upvoted than than the misinformation), the misinformation will have like 2k votes and the correction will be on like 600, and sometimes not even the top response because someone who was blathering on about something semi-relevant got more upvotes recently.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I recall it being said that the surveys were telling WotC that forum discourse was close to the opposite of what their survey reception said.

I don't recall that being said by WotC, I recall that being a common claim by people who never sourced it. If you can find a source, I'll be very impressed, but otherwise, sorry, I don't believe it, because it's too convenient as thing they "could" have said.

I think there was a specific survey (Mystic, maybe?) they said that about, but that's not the same thing as "surveys", let alone the main Next surveys.

They got 7 figure response rates in the surveyea

Source?

Surely the number of people actively posting here at any time is a miniscule fraction, miniscule enough that wild swings from broader survey results would be expected.

That's not necessarily the case. It's actually quite likely that this place is fairly representative of the people who actually take the time to fill in the surveys.

In any case, I don't for one second believe the last-minute changes to 5E from the last public playtest were survey-driven, because what they changed them to wasn't even stuff the surveys were asking about, and there's absolutely no possibility that "write in" answers caused those changes, because it would need like 100% of the people doing write-ins to be super-secret squirrels who don't post on the internet, just secretly answer extremely long and complex surveys and happen to write in the exact same stuff.

 

[Reynard]

My suggestion would be to find someone who is really good at homebrewing stuff for 5e. Check out GM Binder for it's 5e homebrews.

That's the same thing with worse editing.

 

[Corinnguard]

That's the same thing with worse editing.

Not always. It all depends on the author of the PDF on GM Binder.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I was thinking about this yesterday. Well, a slight variation anyways. I was thinking, "Ah, now the 5e fans who came on board with 5e will start the same posts about betrayal and abandonment that 4e fans made when 5e came out, that 3e fans made when 4e came out, and what AD&D fans made in the early days on forums when 3e came out.

Some things are assured lol.

 

[HammerMan]

Playtest feedback was positive for sorcerer. It just happened the designers were hellbent on getting rid of it and wasted their time attempting to do so.

Do we know this? Did the survey data ever get made public and I miss it?!?

 

[Charlaquin]

Do we know this? Did the survey data ever get made public and I miss it?!?

No. We have no idea what the survey feedback was like, we just know what people were saying online. The impression I got was of a largely positive reaction, but a feeling that it didn’t feel like a sorcerer. Whether or not that impression was aligned with the general survey response, only WotC knows.

 

[Sacrosanct]

No. We have no idea what the survey feedback was like, we just know what people were saying online. The impression I got was of a largely positive reaction, but a feeling that it didn’t feel like a sorcerer. Whether or not that impression was aligned with the general survey response, only WotC knows.

I remember a big divide as well. Sorcerer is one of those classes where it appears there are at least two large groups that think what the sorcerer should be, and those are two completely different things. I imagine the survey results were all over the place.

Whatever happens, the only thing I'm certain of, is that one of the large groups will be unhappy.

 

[Charlaquin]

I remember a big divide as well. Sorcerer is one of those classes where it appears there are at least two large groups that think what the sorcerer should be, and those are two completely different things. I imagine the survey results were all over the place.

Whatever happens, the only thing I'm certain of, is that one of the large groups will be unhappy.

The sorcerer is uniquely tricky because it’s defined almost entirely by how it contrasts the wizard. Wizards gain magic through careful study, sorcerers are born magical. Wizards have access to a lot of spells and have to prepare a subset of them, sorcerers have access to fewer spells but can cast them “spontaneously.” Further complicating this is the fact that “spontaneous casting” started out as pretty particular to 3e and how its casting system worked. So, translating that flexibility to 5e, with its casting system being more flexible at base is a particular challenge.