It must be easy, its just a PDF - Forked Thread from What's new with the GSL?

[justanobody]

I have seen plenty of people padding a resume, and since I have not seen them, then I can only speculate like most other things about the inner workings of WotC. I prefer to err on the side of caution, and WotC has stated they are just now starting a digital business idea, and don't know what is going on in what Randy said/implied in his insider articles.

For the art...I am one of those they wouldn't pay for any of the current art to begin with so I can't see a reason that it should have cost that much or more than scale...the point was with most other things have a backup plan already working. Hell, it works for the government! Why buy one when you can buy two at twice the price! Not to start a political discussion, just to give hard facts.

I also stated it was a theory, but one that people have never fully put to practice. Such is the problem with all vices is they cause people to deviate from a working model of something into something else driven by the vice. I was just offering a view of planning ahead being better than what I see form the DDI, because it is being planned as it goes with failed plans left and right in terms of everything about it. Like how those 4 parts of 4th edition are working with one of them already discarded but was in the design phase for probably a good year prior to 4th's announcement.

Sorry, I am one of those that feels the tools are soon to be vaporware. The magazines could also be much more, and the technology exists to make it so, you just have to get people into the mindset of the technology and not to use it as a crutch because it is quicker so not to wait until the last minute because you think you can. This goes for most things these days other than just Dragon/Dungeon, DDI, etc where technology is used as a crutch to procrastinate for whatever reason valid or not.

That is where proper planning comes into play. It is also what is causing Scott Rouse to force himself to a breaking point with all those things listed and still get a new GSL out right before the holiday so he may be drained with his family over it. Why DDI doesn't allow Paypal payments yet, why Gleemax failed, why the beta method used for the character builder isn't working like a beta should, why the Dragon and Dungeon don't have an option to purchase back issues in their PDF forms.....a little advance planning goes a LONG way.

 

[kenmarable]

And, yes, Ken did a good job of summarizing the intention of your original post. I've seen him do that before... summarize a discussion in a rational and well-spoken manner, whether I agree or not.

For good or bad, that's a habit of mine - rewording people's points for them. Sorry if it ever gets annoying. I try not to put words into people's mouths but it's my philosophy background and need for clear arguments coming through.

And thanks for starting this thread - it has generated some interesting discussion.

Also, I don't want to threadjack, but since people are discussing the Dragon and Dungeon magazines I'll ask a quick opinion - what's the general ratio of "edition neutral" material in Dragon nowadays? Obviously things like the class previews aren't very helpful to someone like me who isn't playing 4e, but are the other articles pretty flavorful or mostly crunchtastic? I've been hearing that Dragon has been improving lately, but I'm not really sure how much would be useful in my games if I pretty much cut out the mechanics from the articles. Thanks!

 

[kenmarable]

The magazines could also be much more, and the technology exists to make it so, you just have to get people into the mindset of the technology and not to use it as a crutch because it is quicker so not to wait until the last minute because you think you can. This goes for most things these days other than just Dragon/Dungeon, DDI, etc where technology is used as a crutch to procrastinate for whatever reason valid or not.

I actually agree with both your points here. I was mostly just taken aback by the "if you just plan ahead, it's easy" tone that I read into your posts.

But whether it is true of DDI or not, I have seen in my career many people seeing that technology can deliver things faster, so they mentally then compress the design and production of them as well. If it is easier to get it from my hands to posted live, then there's not as much rush to get it ready to be posted. My guess is that this view may be, intentionally or not, more common in the management ranks than the hands on editors at most places, including WotC.

As for the magazines able to be more, oh my goodness yes!! When I heard they were going digital, I was upset because I rather liked having Paizo happiness in my mailbox twice a month to counter the bill unhappiness that usually was there, but I was hopefully that the magazines would truly go digital. But just like the entire RPG PDF publishing industry, it's just print wannabe and not embracing the technology (a few have made some gestures in the right direction, but not really going for it). PDFs are just a handy format for printing documents, it is not true ePublishing. But I can hope someone will eventually see the light and move us past the PDF book wannabes. (Plus I'll keep tinkering on my own to someday show people how it should/could be done - I originally gave up on some plans I had 4 years ago because I was sure someone with more resources would beat me to it. Again, that poor planning on my part.)

 

[catsclaw227]

For the art...I am one of those they wouldn't pay for any of the current art to begin with so I can't see a reason that it should have cost that much or more than scale...

Quick question... Are you a DDI subscriber?

 

[El Mahdi]

For good or bad, that's a habit of mine - rewording people's points for them. Sorry if it ever gets annoying. I try not to put words into people's mouths but it's my philosophy background and need for clear arguments coming through.

And thanks for starting this thread - it has generated some interesting discussion.

Also, I don't want to threadjack, but since people are discussing the Dragon and Dungeon magazines I'll ask a quick opinion - what's the general ratio of "edition neutral" material in Dragon nowadays? Obviously things like the class previews aren't very helpful to someone like me who isn't playing 4e, but are the other articles pretty flavorful or mostly crunchtastic? I've been hearing that Dragon has been improving lately, but I'm not really sure how much would be useful in my games if I pretty much cut out the mechanics from the articles. Thanks!

Well, I don't want to threadjack either . . . so I'll actually say something about the OP before I answer your question.

I think this thread has shown some good anecdotal information that shows while the pdf's may be "easier" than standard print magazines, they are by no means "easy". I certainly understand, and agree with, the OP's argument. I think if the people actually putting eDragon and eDungeon together had posted, I'm sure they'd say that. (Although, they probably haven't because they're too busy making those simple pdf's.)



I think the magazines have been a good mix of crunch and fluff. I haven't switched to 4E, and probably won't (I prefer my houseruled 3.5, but I do own the 3 core rulebooks for 4E, and I'm not above playing a game of 4E with friends who have switched). I don't have a DDI sub yet, but it is on my Christmas list now. So, my opinion is based only on the free preview material.

I actually like the class previews, but that's because I like tinkering with the rules. I've ganked quite a few things from 4E for my 3E game, so I find the "crunch" as equally useful as the "fluff". The fluff, even if it isn't something I take and use for my games, has been very well done, well thought out, and idea inspiring for me. The crunch material can be used as, and is considered, core material by the WoTC game designers for 4E, and included in the Compendium. So far, the general consensus here on ENWorld seems to be that it's pretty good, well balanced stuff. I'll have to take their word on that, since I haven't actually played 4E, but I can say the crunch I've seen in the preview issues was thought provoking for my own 3E rules tinkering.

The only reasons I initially didn't get a sub was because they weren't including hi-res, tagged and untagged, full page maps (Dungeon), and they weren't including the art in a separate, hi-res, full page format more useable for handouts (Dragon and Dungeon). However, this is no longer the case. They are now providing all of the art again (ala the old Art Gallery format) and including the maps as separate (free) downloads. All of these have been provided as free content (which is how I learned of them), but, if you are a subscriber, they also have it as a convenient all-inclusive download (rather that saving each picture or map individually).

Good adventures, regardless of the system they are initially written for, can be used with any system or edition (with a little bit of work - okay, sometimes a lot of work ). The Free Preview adventures seemed hit and miss to me, but Dungeon has always been that way for me. However, I've always found a Dungeon subscription worthwhile. Ari Marmells Last Breaths of Ashenport, during the free preview period, was exceptional. I see that he has written a couple more since the mags went to subscription and I'm intrigued to read them now. Now that they are providing the features I wanted (maps and artwork), I will be getting a subscription very soon.

Of course, all of the above is strictly my opinion. Your magazine mileage may vary.


P.S.: Go Spartans! (I'll be watching the game New Years Day. Ought to be a tough one against Georgia, but if they play up to their potential, I think they can do it. Either way though, should be a good game.)

 

[justanobody]

Quick question... Are you a DDI subscriber?

Not at this time. I am waiting for reviews on the game table and pricing as well. I don't need the other things and the character builder knowing it is is beta doesn't offer the kind of program or GUI that I like or instills much to look forward to the game table at this point.

I also did not subscribe to Dragon or Dungeon, but picked up the casual Dragon when something interesting was in it from its print form era.

What does this have to do with just the 4th edition art choices?