It Starts (Splatbooks - Martial Power in October)

[The Shadow]

Heck, I'd bet a lot that the Arcane power source book features three new classes -- swordmage (arcane defender), bard (arcane leader), and sorcerer (arcane controller).

No bet - I think you're right. Since PHBII is apparently going to focus on new sources, it makes sense for other classes in the Big Three to appear in their books.

As for Ki, I can't see it as a source of it's own. The monk will be either Martial or Psionic, I say. Personally, I favor the latter, but I suspect it's going to be the former.

On the issue of bards... I could see them being Primal, but Arcane's the way to bet. My guess would be that a Primal Leader would be something more like a Shaman.

(Oh, and pawsplay: While we're fully agreed about the thievery part - the 1e bard smacks of a cultural slur against the Welsh - illusion was very much a part of traditional Celtic bardic abilities. The Mabinogion has plenty of examples.)

 

[drothgery]

On the issue of bards... I could see them being Primal, but Arcane's the way to bet. My guess would be that a Primal Leader would be something more like a Shaman.

I'm pretty sure that at least as of GenCon, bards were concepted as Arcane Leaders; I'm sure one of the reports had them that way. And druids were definitely Leaders.

So here's my highly speculative stab at some of the PHB2 (which I'm guessing will be subitled primal, shadow, and psionic heroes) classes

barbarian - primal defender
druid - primal leader
illusionist - shadow controller
necromancer - shadow leader
assassin (or possibly ninja or shadowdancer) - shadow striker
psion - psionic controller
psychic warrior - psionic defender

"filling out the grid" classes which might make it...
shaman or elementalist - primal controller
??? - primal striker
hexblade - shadow defender
ardent - psionic leader
soulknife - psionic striker

 

[sirwmholder]

...So here's my highly speculative stab at some of the PHB2 (which I'm guessing will be subitled primal, shadow, and psionic heroes) classes

barbarian - primal defender
druid - primal leader
illusionist - shadow controller
necromancer - shadow leader
assassin (or possibly ninja or shadowdancer) - shadow striker
psion - psionic controller
psychic warrior - psionic defender

"filling out the grid" classes which might make it...
shaman or elementalist - primal controller
??? - primal striker
hexblade - shadow defender
ardent - psionic leader
soulknife - psionic striker

That is an awesome speculation... I know I would buy it... though I could see the Barbarian be a Primal Striker... no armor to speak of and massive single target damage due to rage... and I could see the shapshifting Druid/Shaman be the Primal Defender... shifting into a Dire Bear gaining a huge hitpoint bonus to soak the damage... I would expect to see a Beast Master type class fill the role of Primal Leader... complete with animal companions and abilities to boost them. Still great ideas that I hope to see in some form or another.

William Holder

EDIT: PS ~ I have always pictured Shamans as shapshifters with a type of ancestial communion and Druids as elementalist that influence weather patterns and hold sway over the chaotic forces of Nature... maybe I'm odd in that regard.

 

[drothgery]

That is an awesome speculation... I know I would buy it... though I could see the Barbarian be a Primal Striker... no armor to speak of and massive single target damage due to rage... and I could see the shapshifting Druid/Shaman be the Primal Defender... shifting into a Dire Bear gaining a huge hitpoint bonus to soak the damage... I would expect to see a Beast Master type class fill the role of Primal Leader... complete with animal companions and abilities to boost them. Still great ideas that I hope to see in some form or another.

William Holder

EDIT: PS ~ I have always pictured Shamans as shapshifters with a type of ancestial communion and Druids as elementalist that influence weather patterns and hold sway over the chaotic forces of Nature... maybe I'm odd in that regard.

Well, between Races and Classes and scattered GenCon reports I may be mis-remembering, Druids focus on shapeshifting, can heal, and are Leaders (rather than being shapeshifters and major spellcasters that can heal, summon, and blast and also have an animal companion). And barbarian:druid:aladin:cleric. That makes barbarian the primal defender and druid the primal leader. I figured the primal controller, if there were one, would be a class that focused on spellcasting side of what druids did; elementalist might work better than shaman for a class name here.

 

[Vayden]

Why Martial first?

We already have 4 out of the 8 classes in the PHB as Martial classes. Don't get me wrong, I love my melee brutes as much as the next man (if not more), but why Martial first? Wouldn't some Divine or Arcane love make more sense?

 

[FreeXenon]

Druid mentioned in D&D's seminar's summary.

* From Wizards Presents: Races & Classes: Their spellcasting takes second seat. The primary ability is wildshape, which they can do a lot more often, but only shapes they have picked (like spells). They have some nature related spells to cast when in humanoid form.

* The 4E Druid will heavily emphasize sharp-changing abilities, and will possess a spell list with ranged firepower and utility effects.

I am thinking perhaps a Primal Striker? That would be a huge departure from what has come before. The Druid as is stands today would have to be broken down into at least 2 classes: Primal Striker (high damage to small numbers of foes via shape changing) and Primal Controller (spells for terrain control and a little bit 'o Damage). I bet we will see two classes to cover both these.

 

[pawsplay]

We already have 4 out of the 8 classes in the PHB as Martial classes. Don't get me wrong, I love my melee brutes as much as the next man (if not more), but why Martial first? Wouldn't some Divine or Arcane love make more sense?

Four words: Book of Nine Swords. Not everyone loved it, but the people who did, really loved it. "Fighters rock" is one of the mottos of 4e.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

We already have 4 out of the 8 classes in the PHB as Martial classes. Don't get me wrong, I love my melee brutes as much as the next man (if not more), but why Martial first? Wouldn't some Divine or Arcane love make more sense?

Well, the splatbooks for fighter types have come first the last three edition changes (2, 3, 3.5). No reason to stop the trend now.

Besides, the natural love of D&D players for casters will show itself eventually, with lots of Arcane and Divine material spewing forth later on, with Martial stuff being reduced to a bare trickle.

Brad

 

[Lizard]

Well, the splatbooks for fighter types have come first the last three edition changes (2, 3, 3.5). No reason to stop the trend now.

Besides, the natural love of D&D players for casters will show itself eventually, with lots of Arcane and Divine material spewing forth later on, with Martial stuff being reduced to a bare trickle.

Brad

Ah, but if casters and fighters have the same number of powers, will casters still get all the lurve?

From what I can tell, total powers/day will be very roughly even among all classes.

 

[takasi]

Don't get me wrong, I love my melee brutes as much as the next man (if not more), but why Martial first? Wouldn't some Divine or Arcane love make more sense?

My guess is that the book will be more of a "Maneuvers Compendium" than a Complete 4E Warrior book. Maybe the PHB doesn't have as many maneuvers are it does spells?