Item Creation Feat and Shadow Magic?

[trespassers]

sorta OT but related

[edited to move to a different thread]

 

[Jay Lofstead]

I would go ask on Sean Reynolds's boards. He has done a LOT of work on the FR magic settings. I think I would fall in the camp of either they can't cooperate (won't work) or whomever spends the XP will determine the kind of item.

 

[Pax]

I appreciate all the responses so far.

However, I still have difficulty agreeing with everyone. I don't have Magic of Faerun nearby or the FR Campaign book, but if someone can point me to where it states that Shadow Magic users and Weave users can not create items together, it would be very helpful to me.

I'm looking for a rule-based answered, as oppossed to a campaign "flavor" answer, which in my opinion, is what most of the answers have been so far.

Which is perfectly legitimate for the campaign you play in.

The only rules youwill find, are those which describe the Weave and Shadow Weave as wholly seperate forms of magic.

By comparison -- in terms of spellcasters in teh FR, divine or arcane; druid, bard, wizard, paladin, or other; it's all (normally) done through the Weave.

However, when a spellcaster turns to the shadow weave, they GIVE UP their connection to that magic, and can never again cast spells using the Weave.

The shadow weave operates under different rules -- it can NEVER generate light, for example.

So, my analogy of oil and water is a good one.

Especially if you consider what the Shadow Weave IS: it is everything, and everyWHERE, that the Weave is not. It is antimatter, to the Weave's Matter.

Wild magic and Dead magic areas based on disruptions to the Weave, don't affect use of the Shadow Weave (which is one way DM's can pull evil tricks, and have the enemy retain their spells/magic item functions, in what is (to the PC's) a Dead Magic zone ...).

Neitehr book clearly states, outright, that the two sorts of spellcaster cannot work together. But they shouldn't be able to.

Regardless, under the description of the Shadow Weave Magic feat, it says "From now on, any magic item you create is a Shadow Weave item." And those pose serious dangers to Weave-users ...

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Shadow Weave Magic is hard to even DETECT using standard, Weave-based magic. It's hard to dispel or counter, too -- and the same holds true in the other direction.

*snip*

A Psion and a Wizard couldn't cooperate on an item, even if both had each other's equivalent feats; for example, no +1 Flaming Body-Feeder Longswords, using combination Psionic / Arcane enhancements.

I'd argue that the Psion and Wizard would actually have a better chance of cooperating than the Wizard and Shadow Mage -- for the very reason you described. Psionics is easily detected by methods used for Arcane Magic, and vice versa. Psionics relates to Arcane magic the same way that Arcane and Divine magic interact with each other-- Shadow Weave magic is not just different, it's in opposition to standard Weave magic.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Re: Re: [FR] Item Creation Feat and Shadow Magic?

Mystra/Mystara

It's Mystra. Mystara is a very old (and discontinued) Campaign Setting IIRC.

Her predecessor was Mystryl (or, more accurate, another Mystra, and before that, there was Mystryl, but the first Mystra was a reincarnation of Mystryl, and the current Mystra is an ascended Mortal Spellcaster formerly known as Midnight. She took her predecessor's name for political reasons)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm looking for a rule-based answered, as oppossed to a campaign "flavor" answer, which in my opinion, is what most of the answers have been so far.

It is as much a "flavor" of the campaign as the [EVIL] descriptor seen with some spells, or the alignments.

It's as if a lawful good cleric and a chaotic evil one would collaborate to create a staff that can be used by clerics to summon celestials and fiends.

Or like combining matter and antimatter: If you need 6 pounds of stuff and have 3 pounds matter and 3 pounds antymatter, you still can't combine them to 6 pounds...

 

[Pax]

I'd argue that the Psion and Wizard would actually have a better chance of cooperating than the Wizard and Shadow Mage -- for the very reason you described. Psionics is easily detected by methods used for Arcane Magic, and vice versa. Psionics relates to Arcane magic the same way that Arcane and Divine magic interact with each other-- Shadow Weave magic is not just different, it's in opposition to standard Weave magic.

My bad, I should have specified "in a 'Psionics is Different' campaign".

That is another good analogy, too: Weave and Shadow Weave differ, the way Magic and Psionics differ if you choose 'Psionics is Different' ... not in the exact same manner, mechanically, but in a very similar way ... especially as to cooperative item-creation efforts.

 

[demon_jr]

Thanks for all the replies so far.



Let us momentarily suspend our disbelief for the moment and assume that it IS possible for a Weave user and a Shadow Weave user to create a magic item together.

Let us call the Weave user, Type A caster and the Shadow Weave user Type B caster, to remove the campaign references and make this more of a game mechanic type of question.

Let me restate my original question as:

Type A caster has the Item Creation Feat. Type B caster has the spells. Together they cooperate and create a magic item. Is the magic item a Type A, as a result of the Item Creation Feat, or, Type B, since that caster provided the spells?

 

[Jay Lofstead]

Generally, the Type A caster will spend the XP and have the greater influence over the item (they are putting part of themselves into it).

 

[AGGEMAM]

to remove the campaign references

Then remove the [FR] from the title line !!!