Item Creation feats

[Bad Paper]

Does anyone have any characters that have Item-creations feats? Have they been very advantageous?

(I would just like to say that Darkelfo's DM has some rather permissible house rules. I think most DMs aren't quite so generous. Particularly in who spends the XP: it "should" always be the owner of the Craft feat.)

In our group (two parties) the spellcasters are: Dru9, Fig2/Wiz7 [group 1], and Cle9, Rog2/Wiz7 [group 2]. Yes, it's weird that in two totally different parties everyone is ninth level.

The divine casters both have Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and the cleric has Brew Potion and is thinking of taking Craft Wand. The wizards both have Scribe Scroll and Craft Wondrous Item. (Rog2/Wiz7 is my PC; I am DM for group 1)

The druid and her party made huge progress on their arms and armor during some downtime in a small city. They had just come down out of the mountains totally laden with huge treasure. Three months in the city, and the druid outfitted everyone with all the +3 weaponry and armor they could handle. Note that it was a small city, with gp limit of 15k, so the most anyone could hope to buy on the market was a +2 weapon. Furthermore, with all the cash the druid pulled in, she set herself up with +2 Wild armor and +2 Wild shield. She couldn't go to +3 Wild on the armor because the gp limit of the town limited her raw materials. The wizard just made a few trinkets, really, like charging up some bracers here or there. I think he made some gloves of Dex for the monk.

In the other party, the cleric has been making mad potions and piecemeal charging up some armor. The bizarre items are mostly made by my Rog2/Wiz7: e.g. some tools of Disable Device +6, a headband of Use Magic Device +6, and scrolls scrolls scrolls. I'm planning on taking the character to Rog2/Wiz9 then add a couple levels of Blood Magus. He'll hit Wiz10 at the same time as caster level 12, and use that feat to grab Craft Staff. (Also, at blood magus 4 he will have access to a kind of Brew Potion).

Note that in the first group, the party had three months of downtime during which all this crafting could happen. The second group doesn't have downtime; we're constantly being pushed and racing against the clock, so the most we can hope to make are cheap things that only take a few days. But it is nice to say, "we have a few days, I'll charge this cloak of resistance from +1 to +2." You can even do that in a podunk town with a gp limit of 1500, where you wouldn't even be able to *buy* a cloak of resistance +2.

The XP cost for magic items is negligible. XPs are like GPs: they are not meant to be hoarded; they are meant to be SPENT. Would you rather spend your XPs on a cloak of resistance or on losing a level to that wight because you were too cheap to spend them on a cloak of resistance? Furthermore, if you're worried about "falling behind" the party, you won't. Lower-level characters pull in more XP for the same fight as their higher-level comrades, so you simply won't fall far behind. Besides, would you rather be ill-equipped, or a partial-level lower and well equipped?

The greatest hindrance for magic-item creation is the time factor. If you don't have a week, then sorry: you can't charge that +1 sword up to +2. 3.5 rules are nicer than 3.0 rules, though. In 3.5 you can partially charge an item and come back to it later, while in 3.0 you had to do it all at once or lose your work.

My jibe at Darkelfo's DM notwithstanding, our groups have a house rule, too, that says that you can make 1000gp worth of magic items per day. e.g. the RAW limit you to one potion per day, which is a C R A Z Y way to lose a full day to make one stupid potion of cure light wounds. So in our rules, the cleric can make twenty potions of clw in a day, or a potion of csw and 5 clw, or whatever. The same goes for the rules about making one scroll per day. Of course, this rule can bite back; under the RAW it should take one day to make a scroll of Wish. Under our rule it actually takes a month.

Incidentally, Forge Ring looks like a great feat to take, particularly for a cleric. As much as my Rog/Wiz would like to one day make himself a Ring of Wizardry, it doesn't seem to be worth a feat. He can make most useful things with his CWI feat, and spend the big cash on one or two rings that he *really* needs.

/end of coffee-fuelled monologue

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The same goes for the rules about making one scroll per day. Of course, this rule can bite back; under the RAW it should take one day to make a scroll of Wish. Under our rule it actually takes a month.

Uh, just to clarify the RAW:

You can make, at most, one scroll per day.

A scroll of wish takes a minimum of (17 * 9 * 25) = 3,825gp / 1,000gp/day = 4 days

Scribing a scroll requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.

EDIT: Math error - I priced a level 8, CL 17 scroll. Fixed!

 

[Nail]

Another perspective: My players often complain about not having enough downtime. As a DM, I'm constantly providing them with chellenges and decisions: and this group always choses to go forward rather than wait and prepare. They perceive there's no downtime, when in fact there's as much as they're willing to take.

IOW: check with the other players. Do all the players want downtime? If the rest don't, then you ain't gonna get it.

 

[Nail]

Uh, just to clarify the RAW:

You can make, at most, one scroll per day.

A scroll of wish takes a minimum of (17 * 9 * 25) = 3,400gp / 1,000gp/day = 4 days

SRD lists a market price of 28,825 gp. ......but I see now that includes the XP "charge".......where are the rules for that?

......looking......

[Edit] Got it. SRD, creating magic items.

"In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components or with XP components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. Each XP in the component costs adds 5 gp to the market price. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost and the base XP cost (both determined by the base price) plus the costs for the components."

 

[Rystil Arden]

SRD lists a market price of 28,825 gp. ......but I see now that includes the XP "charge".......where are the rules for that?

......looking......

Nope. 25,000 of the market cost comes from the 5,000 XP that are burnt for the Wish thats in the scroll. That doesn't make the crafting take any longer though, since cost to make is still 1,700, so 4 days.

 

[Nail]

Yup.....it just took me a bit. And really, an easy mistake to make.

 

[darkelfo]

(I would just like to say that Darkelfo's DM has some rather permissible house rules. I think most DMs aren't quite so generous. Particularly in who spends the XP: it "should" always be the owner of the Craft feat.)

My jibe at Darkelfo's DM notwithstanding, our groups have a house rule, too, that says that you can make 1000gp worth of magic items per day. e.g. the RAW limit you to one potion per day, which is a C R A Z Y way to lose a full day to make one stupid potion of cure light wounds. So in our rules, the cleric can make twenty potions of clw in a day, or a potion of csw and 5 clw, or whatever. The same goes for the rules about making one scroll per day. Of course, this rule can bite back; under the RAW it should take one day to make a scroll of Wish. Under our rule it actually takes a month.

/end of coffee-fuelled monologue

My GM's house rules are very flexible. It's a great campaign with an awesome story line. The sky has not fallen because I have crafted a Belt Buckle of Protection. My crafter is still the only toon to go down in every combat! The game is truly a blast and I'm having fun with all my Item Creation Feats (I'll have seven by my next level). Can't wait to get Craft Ring too.

I'm so glad I'm in a campaign where the focus is on the story, creativity and character development, rather than what you "can't" do. I've got so many fun ideas for custom new Wonderous Items, spells and non-magical creations. We've got a Warforged with 4/Adamantine DR, tons of hit points and a large base damage. I seriously doubt the campaign is going to go over the edge when I craft my Rusty Key of Silent Portal or Key of Knocking. I suppose those items are "illegitimate" since they aren't listed in black and white in the DMG, but to each his own campaign.

I agree that one potion/scroll per day is totally dumb. The limit should be up to 1000 gp per day in crafting total regardless of the number of items.

 

[nak9788]

Off topic but I saw it again on this thread. What the heck does RAW mean? I have been able to decipher other acroymns like (IMO: In my opinion, OMG: Oh My God), but I still don't have a clue what RAW stands for. The best I came up with is Regular Adventure World. I doubt I'm right but its driving me crazy.

 

[Rhun]

In the campaign that I am currently running, Item Creation comes in handy because I don't make magic readily available for purchase. Some items can be found, but not necessarily anything the players want. So they either have to find their items while adventuring, or craft them.


However, to make up for that, and because I don't like the logic behind all the different Craft Item feats, I only have 3 Craft Item feats in my game:

Scribe Scroll
Brew Potion
Imbue Item

Imbue Item basically combines Craft Wondrous Item, Arms & Armor, Rings, Wands, etc. all into one feat, and that bases what items can be crafted by the crafter's level. So that helps to make up for the overall lack of magic items for sale, without requiring that characters to use all their feats to craft their own items.

 

[Rystil Arden]

My GM's house rules are very flexible. It's a great campaign with an awesome story line. The sky has not fallen because I have crafted a Belt Buckle of Protection. My crafter is still the only toon to go down in every combat! The game is truly a blast and I'm having fun with all my Item Creation Feats (I'll have seven by my next level). Can't wait to get Craft Ring too.

I'm so glad I'm in a campaign where the focus is on the story, creativity and character development, rather than what you "can't" do. I've got so many fun ideas for custom new Wonderous Items, spells and non-magical creations. We've got a Warforged with 4/Adamantine DR, tons of hit points and a large base damage. I seriously doubt the campaign is going to go over the edge when I craft my Rusty Key of Silent Portal or Key of Knocking. I suppose those items are "illegitimate" since they aren't listed in black and white in the DMG, but to each his own campaign.

I agree that one potion/scroll per day is totally dumb. The limit should be up to 1000 gp per day in crafting total regardless of the number of items.

Items that aren't in the DMG are fine. Items that infringe on another item type are illegitimate. It would be like crafting a Rod of Lordly Might without the prerequisite of having the Craft Magic Arms and Armour feat. Unfortunately, the Ring item type is not well defined, so the only way to protect this high level feat is to take the reasonable ruling that you can't just make any ring effect into a Wondrous Item.

Frankly, though, Bad Paper and I don't need to answer to your myriad accusations. If I was one to accuse, I would have brought up the things that Bad Paper did about those house rules, which are all very apt, but I just wanted to point out an important ruling that helps preserve game balance. Frankly, if you ignore the rules and are completely permissive with any item crafting, or anything else in the rules, the only thing that keeps the game balance is (no offense) the player's inexperience with the rules.