Item creation, XP costs, and level loss

[Kerrick]

My question is pretty simple: Can you lose a level from XP loss resulting from creating a magic item? I looked in the DMG under magic item creation, and I can't find anything on it; the PHB says:

XP Cost (XP): Some powerful spells entail an experience point cost to you. No spell can restore the XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot cast the spell unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you may, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for casting a spell rather than keeping them and advancing a level.

Based on this and common sense, I'd say you can't, but I wanted to get a consensus.

 

[mvincent]

Can you lose a level from XP loss resulting from creating a magic item? I looked in the DMG under magic item creation, and I can't find anything on it; the PHB says:

To clarify, did you possibly miss "You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level", or were you doubting it's application towards making magic items (as opposed to casting spells)?

 

[Vuron]

Basically if the XP cost of the magic item is more than the amount of XP the caster has above thier current level then they are unable to make the item until they have earned experience equal to the XP total of the item in question.

The second part allows mid-level spellcasters the ability to make higher value items when technically they would be able to advance a level with that experience.

 

[Kerrick]

To clarify, did you possibly miss "You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level", or were you doubting it's application towards making magic items (as opposed to casting spells)?

I'm doubting its application toward making magic items. Like I said, I'm a big proponent of common sense - if it doesn't work for spells, then it probably doesn't work for magic items, either.

Basically if the XP cost of the magic item is more than the amount of XP the caster has above thier current level then they are unable to make the item until they have earned experience equal to the XP total of the item in question.

The second part allows mid-level spellcasters the ability to make higher value items when technically they would be able to advance a level with that experience.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.

 

[mascheko]

Sorry for bumping, but I stumbled over this by a search.

I thought about the Permanency-Spell and it's XP-loss and if you loose a level. According to PH174 you can not loose a level and need high enough XP.

The discussion that followed here sounded like that no XP loss can ever cause a level loss, but PH54 says that the XP loss of dismissing a familiar can let you drop a level.

For that reason I think the same counts for creating an item, since thats a different pair of shoes compared to casting a spell. You spend the XP for crafting the item, not for casting the spell (since most of the spells used for item creation have no XP-cost). A magic item has much more within than a spell. The XP cost is in relation to the crafting costs, means, you have higher costs for a daily usable item, than for a single-use item. But for both items you need to cast the same spell only once.
Means, the spell doesnt make the difference in price, so the spell can't be the reason for the XP loss at all.
Means further, that the rules for XP loss for spellcasting can not be automatically applied for item creation.

At least thats my point of view

 

[Herzog]

I think you can not voluntarily spend enough XP to loose a level.

XP loss from dismissing a familiar can be prevented by a saving throw => not voluntary.

 

[jefgorbach]

Since you cant voluntarily loss enough XP to decrease a level from casting the spells normally, it seems reasonable you likewise could not lose a level while investing them into an object to enchant it.

 

[irdeggman]

Other than the obvious thread necromancy.

Look at the PHB pg 88 under "Item Creation Feats"

the SRD version of the text

ITEM CREATION FEATS
An item creation feat lets a spellcaster create a magic item of a certain type. Regardless of the type of items they involve, the various item creation feats all have certain features in common.

XP Cost: Experience that the spellcaster would normally keep is expended when making a magic item. The XP cost equals 1/25 of the cost of the item in gold pieces. A character cannot spend so much XP on an item that he or she loses a level. However, upon gaining enough XP to attain a new level, he or she can immediately expend XP on creating an item rather than keeping the XP to advance a level.

Since it is under the Item creation feats section and the text specifically states when making a magic item. . . .

 

[mascheko]

[MENTION=16285]irdeggman[/MENTION]: Well, that makes it clear, thanks for that.
[MENTION=25696]Herzog[/MENTION]. A succesfull saving-throw only halfs the XP loss. Beside this, you loose the XP for a dead familiar as well (guess you don't speak there about voluntarily). So that's an "option" to loose a level.