Items being destroyed by energy

[Plane Sailing]

As a result of a conversation over in the rules forum, I'm posting here the rules which I personally use for the destruction of items/magic items when faced with overwhelming damage.

I don't like the DMG method where a single item has to make a ST if the owner rolls a 1 on the saving throw. It doesn't mesh with the way that I used to play back in 1e, and my "dramatic sensibilities"

The basic principle I have is that items must make a save when they are threatened by "massive damage", in the same way that creatures are. A subsidiary principle is that different types of material are more or less vulnerable to certain energy forms.

How it works
If someone fails a ST against an energy attack, and the damage taken exceeds the massive damage threshold, then items have to make a Fort ST to survive or be destroyed.

The standard threshold is 50. If a material is particularly vulnerable, then the threshold is halved to 25. Some materials may be invulnerable to certain forms of damage.

I'll list the basics which I use by material, and then by elemental attack.

Weapons/Armour/Hard Metal
Vuln: acid
Normal: fire, cold, sonic
Immune: electricity

Jewellery/Soft Metal
Vuln: fire, electricity
Normal: acid, cold, sonic
Immune:

Glass/Crystal
Vuln: sonic
Normal: fire, cold
Immune: electricity, acid

Wood
Vuln: electricity, fire
Normal: cold, sonic, acid
Immune:

Cloth/leather
Vuln: fire, acid
Normal: cold, electricity
Immune: sonic

Fire
Vuln: soft metal, wood, cloth
Normal: hard metal, glass
Immune: - none -

Electricity
Vuln: soft metal, wood
Normal: cloth
Immune: glass/crystal, hard metal

Cold
Vuln: - none -
Normal: everything
Immune: - none -

Sonic
Vuln: glass/crystal
Normal: hard metal/soft metal/wood
Immune: cloth/leather

Acid
Vuln: hard metal
Normal: soft metal/wood/cloth
Immune: glass/crystal

===============

It would be easy to use a simplified system where you just look for a massive damage check when 50+ points of damage has been taken, if you think this is too complicated. There is a fairly good case for making all materials immune to cold damage, since it doesn't directly destroy the materials - it is just draining heat from them.

For my purposes, the issues of vulnerability and immunity came down to "common sense" decisions alongside the PHB descriptions of l-bolt, f-ball, shatter etc. I'd welcome opinions from others with greater knowledge of materials science !

One of the benefits of this system is that it only kicks in when really large amounts of damage are being dealt - so you can roll a 1 on your ST vs a 6 point burning hands and not worry that anything is going to be destroyed. On the other hand, it supports the MM text for the red dragon which says that it prefers not to breath on prey because it doesn't want to destroy the treasure... under the standard rules destroying any treasure is very unlikely indeed. Under these rules catching a big red dragon breath face-on and taking 100+ damage is no laughing matter.

- - Dedicated to all DM's who like to (occasionally) see PC's standing in charred rags.

p.s. I daresay some people might say that destroying treasure upsets the campaign balance - but that balance is entirely in the DM's hands after all. Maybe that dragon has an appropriate treasure horde to redress the balance

Cheers

 

[warhookdm]

I like it. Just 1 question: is the Fort DC the same as the original save, easier, or harder?

Also, to keep game balance with regard to magic treasure, and eliminate those pesky +4 & +5 (or better) weapons, all you need are a couple BBEG Barbarians/Fighters with the Sunder feat who enjoy disarming their victims, and extracting heavy favors in exchange for the PC's life.....

 

[Xylix]

I am of the type where items are destroyed where it is cinematically appropriate.


My problem with this is in that if a 400th level fighter gets hit by a 500 damage fire breath it is a mere scratch. However, if he failed his save items would be obliterated with no chance of survival.

That just ain't cool. That 400th level fighter should just walk through the fire the flames curling away from his body their redish light gleeming off of his plate armor. His silvery blade should shimer from its sheath screaming certain death for the fool that challenged him.

It shouldn't be, the fighter comes into focus from the haze his armor charred off his unscarred skin, puddles of molten steel slide off his muscular frame.

Blowing up items is cool, but it should be a GM run thing, as only the GM knows how the effect will relate to the player.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My problem with this is in that if a 400th level fighter gets hit by a 500 damage fire breath it is a mere scratch. However, if he failed his save items would be obliterated with no chance of survival.

I don't believe you are actually being serious here, are you? Do you imagine that D&D would actually cater for someone of 400th level? I don't for one moment.

The situation you describe is so far away from any likely event in a game of D&D that I can't understand how it warrants consideration

 

[Technik4]

Perhaps they meant 400 hp. In this case, you could suffer 7 "massive" damage attacks, and possibly lose most of your equipment, but you would still be in good fighting condition.

I'm afraid this is something I like to wing, making a rule for it seems like theres just more dice to throw, and more people that will be unhappy, especially at higher levels.

Of course, if you stress a lot of exotic (strong) materials, as per Magic of Faerun, it might be fun, but it seems time-consuming to me..

Technik

 

[Xylix]

I don't believe you are actually being serious here, are you? Do you imagine that D&D would actually cater for someone of 400th level? I don't for one moment.

The situation you describe is so far away from any likely event in a game of D&D that I can't understand how it warrants consideration

It is an extreme example, however you do not disagree with the same statement. It really does not matter, HP is an undefined quanity and damage is equally so. How it relates to the physcial damage is an unknown determined on circumstances, and dramatisim.

If I take 10 damage from a bullet and have 80 hp, I could declare the bullet missed, it grazed my cheek leaving a trickle of blood. It hit my bible, thus saving me... etc... ect...

It is not always ''you get hit by a bullet, thus it goes through your body splattering your liver across the room, you take 10 damage."

Player : "Oh good I still have 70 hp left, guess I dont really need that liver. I pull the arrow stuck in my heart the other round and fire it back."

Because of this YOU don't know the exact nature of any damage taken, and as such applying a one size fits all is a bad solution. It completely pervents the destruction of items as low levels, and makes it insanely common an high levels.

It also makes it seem stupid. Espcecially if you ever end up in on of those rediculous senearios.


Your system is not good because it does not work with D&D's scaling factor. If D&D had a dramatically differing scalling factor it wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't. Hp scale redicoulously, and you fail to take in the component that characters are not taking full blasts if they have insane hp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It also makes it seem stupid. Espcecially if you ever end up in on of those rediculous senearios.

Your system is not good because it does not work with D&D's scaling factor. If D&D had a dramatically differing scalling factor it wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't. Hp scale redicoulously, and you fail to take in the component that characters are not taking full blasts if they have insane hp.

I can see that we disagree then.

Cheers