It's almost official: FanCC is dead. Come to the Funerals.

[maransreth]

I have version 001 from October 2001 of the Netbook of Traps in pdf version if you want a copy Adam, or I can email a copy to Dom.

As to the death of the Fancc, yes, it has been a long drawn out affair. It has had a long and varied history with infighting, compliance issues and then legal issues with publishers (won't name any names ). I think the Fancc would still be going if technology wasnt the way it is and it is so easy for people to publish their own material for sale easily as pdfs.

The main thing people should remember is that in the "old" ( ) 3e days there was such a thing as keeping a feat/class/race/spell balanced within its parameters. That was the main focus of the groups and the reviewing - making sure what was published was useable and not deemed as over the top by the d20 internet community. Unfortunately in today's 3.5 era, balanced whatevers dont seem to be the norm even from WotC themselves and authors became frustrated with the length of time taken to review x,y,z to ensure it was balanced.

So raise a glass or two to the group that started a number of successful freelancers.

 

[Psion]

Unfortunate, because FanCC was a sign that the OGL movement might be a venue to make vectors in the hobby outside of the industry, and let the fans be more involved in creating their gaming environment.

But alas, even I faltered when it came to supporting a FanCC book. When I started reviewing, it was one of the projects that had to go.

 

[smetzger]

I contributed, but stopped when the review process started taking more than a month.

I mourn its demise.

 

[Mark]

Unfortunate, because FanCC was a sign that the OGL movement might be a venue to make vectors in the hobby outside of the industry, and let the fans be more involved in creating their gaming environment.

This kind of statement is as silly, IMO, as when someone tries to label some folks "suits" or others "creatives". With the possible exception of WotC, and a few of the larger companies that also churn out d20/OGL material, the "fans" are the bulk of the "Industry" and the "Industry" is comprised mostly of "fans". Anybody who believes in divisions like this are only kidding themselves.

Personally, I think that a lot of people who worked on fan projects became disenchanted with the advent of 3.5, when previous work was perceived by some as obsolete. Or worse, it seemingly took everything that had been put in the OUT box, and slid it all back into the IN box for updating. That's frustrating enough for companies/freelancers who might be trying to turn a buck or make a little pocket change, but for folks looking at their projects as immortalized by the OGL it must have been a rude awakening.

Nevertheless, there is a bigger picture to consider...

It would probably be a worthwhile project for a handful of dedicated individuals (or even a small company) to go through the netbooks, weed out the ridiculous or the redundant entries, boil down the OGC that is left to the prime/choice material, and update it all with an eye for balance and playability. I'm not saying it needs to be anything more than a FREE product, when it all comes down to it, but as someone who enjoys some increased traffic from publishing some fan-generated material (in the form of the Cooperative Dungeon projects) I can attest to seeing some increase in visibility (and, I think, some sales of other products).

As far as the material in the Netbooks, it's OGC so it's not like it couldn't be done, unlike pre-OGL days when everyone and his mother had his own idea of the level of proprietary status of their fanfic and "alternate" systems fixes (foolish notions anyway, since they mostly relied heavily on the IP of other companies or people).

With the advent of the OGL, FanCC isn't really ever dead, it's only dormant until the time comes when someone wishes to pick up the dropped ball and run with it again...for a while.

 

[Psion]

This kind of statement is as silly, IMO, as when someone tries to label some folks "suits" or others "creatives".

I don't think I have did any such thing. No slight to the industry, no slight to the fans. I am merely recognizing the fact that sometimes the concerns of the industry and the concerns of the fans often diverge. Why this is is made apparent here:

It would probably be a worthwhile project for a handful of dedicated individuals (or even a small company) to go through the netbooks, weed out the ridiculous or the redundant entries,

The fact that you have to do this illustrates the major motivational challenge facing fan projects. In a paid project, some effort at doing this would have already been done.

 

[Mark]

Unfortunate, because FanCC was a sign that the OGL movement might be a venue to make vectors in the hobby outside of the industry, and let the fans be more involved in creating their gaming environment.

This kind of statement is as silly, IMO, as when someone tries to label some folks "suits" or others "creatives". (With the possible exception of WotC, and a few of the larger companies that also churn out d20/OGL material, the "fans" are the bulk of the "Industry" and the "Industry" is comprised mostly of "fans". Anybody who believes in divisions like this are only kidding themselves.)

I don't think I have did any such thing. No slight to the industry, no slight to the fans. I am merely recognizing the fact that sometimes the concerns of the industry and the concerns of the fans often diverge.

Huh?

So you draw a line and suggest the industry is on one side and fans on the other. I say there is not really such a line, that in this "industry" fans *are* industry people and vice versa. Then you say you did no such thing. Then further say that you didn't slight anyone. And then go on the repeat that there is a division. Break that down for me again, will you please? Did you misread what I posted, or just not understand it? Because I make no mention of "slights" or judgements, only the delineation being made by you between the so-called industry and fans, such as we all are.

Why this is is made apparent here:.

It would probably be a worthwhile project for a handful of dedicated individuals (or even a small company) to go through the netbooks, weed out the ridiculous or the redundant entries, {boil down the OGC that is left to the prime/choice material, and update it all with an eye for balance and playability. I'm not saying it needs to be anything more than a FREE product, when it all comes down to it, but as someone who enjoys some increased traffic from publishing some fan-generated material (in the form of the Cooperative Dungeon projects) I can attest to seeing some increase in visibility (and, I think, some sales of other products).}

The fact that you have to do this illustrates the major motivational challenge facing fan projects. In a paid project, some effort at doing this would have already been done.

How many race books and/or class books do you have on your reviewer's shelves? Have you seen the section fifteen of Bastion's Arms and Armor? I don't think the "Industry" has done a whole lot in the way of consolidating or weeding out material at all. And why would they, as a whole? What it all boils down to is whoever happens to be making the call, whether a DM at a table or a "president" of a d20 company, is deciding which material suits their best idea of an ideal game (and usually leaves a little more, or a lot more, in to make sure a broader audience is satisfied that all based are covered).

Such a project boiling down OGC from the Netbooks and reformatting them for republication would be no different, IMO, then one DM taking them and using the old red marker before making copies for his players.

 

[Turanil]

I have version 001 from October 2001 of the Netbook of Traps in pdf version if you want a copy Adam, or I can email a copy to Dom.

Ah Duane! It has been a long time. I don't see you often on these boards. Hope you are going well! Yes, you can send me the Netbook of Traps. I plan to upload many of the netbooks on Enworld in two or three weeks, when the thing will run smoothly and all bugs will have disappeared.

I could do a conversion to 3.5 and "weed out the ridiculous or the redundant entries, boil down the OGC that is left to the prime/choice material, and update it all with an eye for balance and playability" of the Netbook of classes. Unfortunately we don't have the Word documents anymore, only the PDF, and copypasting from a PDF is too much work than is worth doing it.

 

[Peterson]

dances a jig

Bad, diaglo, BAD! Funny though.

Still....bad!

All hail 4th edition!

Peterson

 

[der_kluge]

Well, I understand what you are saying but I'm more prone to say that the laziness of a few people that can't handle simple forms is the problem, not capitalism. I'm not really sure where you get that unusual take on how things work because without capitalism there wouldn't be the very licenses that allow such a project to come into being, and taken to an extreme there wouldn't even be a D&D. It's like a bunch of people running down stairs when they've been told not to do so, and them blaming the existence of stairs for the injuries sustained from the inevitible falls.

Well true, but my point was that the FanCC was like work, and people weren't getting paid for it. Some people figured out that if they were going to spend vast amounts of time writing crunch they might as well get paid for it, since the OGL made that a possibility.

As far as you coming up from the netbooks to Thunderhead, you miss my point. Without the licenses there would have likely been no Thuderhead for you to come up to. I'm wondering if you would have ever been in the industry at all if the only outlet to write for D&D was WotC? Had you ever pursued it at all? I never had, mainly becuase I always wanted creative control over anything I write. However, you do Freelance work for others so I wonder if it is defferent for you.

Well, it's sort of a chicken and egg question. To answer your question, no, I never pursued any writing before the d20 license came out. Never submitted anything to Dragon or had any desire to do so. I only signed on with Thunderhead because it sounded like fun (it was), and enjoyed the creative outlet. Today I still writing (just signed on to write a HARP supplement) and I enjoy it for the creative outlet. I'm with you on the creative control, though. When I did the netbook of tinkering, I made it clear to team members who joined (there were only a handful) that it was my netbook, and I was going to create it how I wanted it to be done. It's also how I wrote Artificer's Handbook - ultimately it's the book "I" wanted, and it's one of my favorite books, and not just because I wrote most of it.

 

[Diremede]

The End ...... Sort of.

Well all in all I would say your right, the FANCC was a good idea, but unfortunately it just couldn't stand the test of time. My team and I (Netbook of Magical Treasures) put out a few releases and have quite a few magic items that feel are pretty cool and add a lot of flavor to gaming. I myself even ventured forth to add our items to Jamis Bucks Treasure Generator ( a cool program ), so to further the usefullness of the netbook. I had a great team and I tell ya what I met some really interesting and insightful people when working on the netbook. I'm glad I did it and I hope some people got some use out of it. I also enjoyed the netbook of feats, traps ( i do have a copy ), and many of the others. I don't know about the other netbooks, but the release of 3.5 really took the wind out of my sails. I started going through and updating everything, and then got to looking at new ( now old ) material, and then got to looking at all the other supplements out there and new ones coming out, and finally decided that there is enough. In the early days of 3E the netbooks were great sources of information and new ideas brought about by the use of OGL, I would say most of those ideas have been incorported, redone, or introduced into the d20 world through one supplement or another at this point.

While it served its purpose I would say it has outlived its usefulness. I personally pay for the webspace for the NboMT, and will keep the site up, I don't plan on taking the netbook down, and if the others go down i will put them there for download for sure.

I have decided with this post to move forward though and finish a revised 3.5 edition of the current netbook. Posts are sometimes inspiration