D&D (2024) Its till just me or is the 2024 MM heavily infused by more 4e influences?

[Micah Sweet]

i was referring to the purely martial DnD classes, i didn't realise AiME was a game, i thought it was an abbreviation of 'and in my experience.'

Sorry. AiME is Adventures in Middle-Earth, a 5e 3pp that has its own set of classes.

 

[dave2008]

@CreamCloud0 , As @Micah Sweet mentioned, AiME is a 5e supplement for playing in Middle Earth. The newer version ("The Lord of the Rings Roleplayin" by a different publisher) is even available on DnD Beyond. All the classes are non-magic:

• Captain
• Champion
• Messenger
• Scholar
• Treasure Hunter
• Warden

Also, per the 2024 DMG, magic items are not required either (and they definitely were in previous editions):

From Chapter 7 of the 2024 DMG:

Are Magic Items Necessary?
The D&D game assumes that magic items appear sporadically and that they are a boon unless an item bears a curse. Characters and monsters are built to face each other without the help of magic items, which means that having a magic item makes a character more powerful or versatile than a generic character of the same level. As DM, you never have to worry about awarding magic items just so the characters can keep up with the campaign’s threats. Magic items are truly prizes—desirable but not necessary.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Also, per the 2024 DMG, magic items are not required either (and they definitely were in previous editions):

From Chapter 7 of the 2024 DMG:

Are Magic Items Necessary?
The D&D game assumes that magic items appear sporadically and that they are a boon unless an item bears a curse. Characters and monsters are built to face each other without the help of magic items, which means that having a magic item makes a character more powerful or versatile than a generic character of the same level. As DM, you never have to worry about awarding magic items just so the characters can keep up with the campaign’s threats. Magic items are truly prizes—desirable but not necessary.

you'll forgive my scepticism on this particular point when they said basically exactly the same thing in 2014 only for it to be later revealed that it was more or less assumed you'd have a caster concentrating on the Magic Weapon spell to facilitate the martials whenever you encountered something with nonmagic resistance.

 

[dave2008]

you'll forgive my scepticism on this particular point when they said basically exactly the same thing in 2014 only for it to be later revealed that it was more or less assumed you'd have a caster concentrating on the Magic Weapon spell to facilitate the martials whenever you encountered something with nonmagic resistance.

That was always easy to overcome, but you are (basically) correct. However, It is more true now than ever since they have removed nonmagic weapon resistances.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That was always easy to overcome, but you are (basically) correct. However, It is more true now than ever since they have removed nonmagic weapon resistances.

Of course, none of this counters the point that the vast majority of 5.5 classes make significant use of magic spells and/or supernatural abilities, which makes things at least as magical as previous editions.

 

[dave2008]

Of course, none of this counters the point that the vast majority of 5.5 classes make significant use of magic spells and/or supernatural abilities, which makes things at least as magical as previous editions.

But it is also a bit of a non sequitur. If you want to play the game with no magic you obviously don't play with magic classes and the game as a whole is more supportive of that style of play than ever before. The issue is not whether or not you can play with magic and how much magic you an play with, but can you play without magic? I argue 4e* and 5e are the easiest versions of D&D to play with no magic. I don't really see how that can be denied, but I am sure some will!

*Some people claimed 4e martial exploits were like magic, but I never agreed with that viewpoint.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But it is *Some people claimed 4e martial exploits were like magic, but I never agreed with that viewpoint.

Only mechanically, in the sense that everything used the same system and 4e never really cared about explanations, just effects IME.

 

[dave2008]

Only mechanically, in the sense that everything used the same system and 4e never really cared about explanations, just effects IME.

Some people claimed some of effects were "magical" like damage on a miss and very control effects.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Of course, none of this counters the point that the vast majority of 5.5 classes make significant use of magic spells and/or supernatural abilities, which makes things at least as magical as previous editions.

In 1st edition there was only one class without spellcasting (or two if you include monk), thieves getting some limited magic at high level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In 1st edition there was only one class without spellcasting (or two if you include monk), thieves getting some limited magic at high level.

And? I still almost never saw spells in the hands of more than half the party until 3e.