D&D 5E (2024) Its till just me or is the 2024 MM heavily infused by more 4e influences?

[FitzTheRuke]

I am telling you what is in the 2014 MM

Yeah, I get that - I'm just not sure why the differences between a claw and a bit (usually, what, a damage type, maybe, apparently some reach, and sometimes a breath-related damage bump) is enough to make a claw and a bit "feel" different enough to bother with looking at two different lines on a statblock when your damage roll will probably make a bigger difference on the damage differential.

because I have not found a way for it to make sense to me yet
no, it's about not liking abilities I cannot think a good explanation for

I guess I was hoping you'd share more specifically why you can't think of a good explanation. I assume that for some reason, you don't like the idea that they spit it, shake it off their scales, conjure it with magic, or simply corrupt the area around them (those are just four off the top of my head, without actually looking at the ability. I might be able to come up with more if I see exactly how the ability works, or I might scratch one or two of those out, I'm really not sure exactly what the ability is that you're objecting to).

 

[Hussar]

[QUOTE="mamba”]well, this is too close to the surface for me then


yeah, and I do not like that this is the only explanation all that much[/QUOTE]

You don’t like that an ancient poison gas dragon has magical poison gas powers?

 

[mamba]

Yeah, I get that - I'm just not sure why the differences between a claw and a bit (usually, what, a damage type, maybe, apparently some reach, and sometimes a breath-related damage bump) is enough to make a claw and a bit "feel" different enough to bother with looking at two different lines on a statblock when your damage roll will probably make a bigger difference on the damage differential.

the neck has a longer reach than the arm, that is where the 10ft come from, one does pierce and fire for an average 26, the other slashing for an average 15 (using the red dragon here)

Could there be more differences and could the two be more interesting, sure, but Rend does the exact opposite of that.

I grant you that it makes the narrative more flexible, by not referring to any particular attack, but if you can describe a Rend as ‘whatever’ you could have done that with the Claw too, no one forced you to always describe it as a claw attack

I guess I was hoping you'd share more specifically why you can't think of a good explanation. I assume that for some reason, you don't like the idea that they spit it, shake it off their scales, conjure it with magic, or simply corrupt the area around them (those are just four off the top of my head, without actually looking at the ability.

magic explains everything and nothing, it is my least favorite explanation because of that.

Spit is the only one I find halfway acceptable, which is why I mentioned it some pages back.

Shaking it from their scales does not explain why the AoE is up to 90ft away from the dragon.

Corrupting the surrounding does not explain what triggers the miasma in a certain spot.

I might be able to come up with more if I see exactly how the ability works, or I might scratch one or two of those out, I'm really not sure exactly what the ability is that you're objecting to).

it’s a reaction to the dragon using a legendary resistance or the dragon being hit by a ranged attack. At that point the miasma appears in a 30ft radius up to 90ft away in an area the dragon can see.

Deals poison damage, save halves
It doesn’t say how it works, only what it does

Spit is the best I came up with, not really a miasma though nor does it require the dragon to see that area imo (could be behind a wall)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Perhaps none. Does that invalidate the question?

No. Thought you had something specific in mind.

 

[mamba]

You don’t like that an ancient poison gas dragon has magical poison gas powers?

no, not particularly. I do not like the high magic trend of 2024 in general

 

[FitzTheRuke]

no, not particularly. I do not like the high magic trend of 2024 in general

While I'd agree with you that I'm not a fan of high magic, I also agree with Hussar's post that you commented on. A high-level green dragon really probably can (and perhaps should) be able to will poisonous clouds into existence, which is likely what they're going for with the ability. You might not like it, but it's conjuration magic.

Again, I'd often agree when it comes to "it's magic" being a poor excuse for stuff. But this one feels right enough (to me) that it doesn't enter that box.

And thanks for sharing above. I might not agree with you, but I follow the logic of your complaint.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

No argument about 5.5. If a hill giant should logically be able to swing their club and knock someone across the room (and for my money they should), then that ability ought to be in the game. If 5.5 doesn't allow for that, then IMO the game is flawed.

So you say this about all previous editions as well then. Hill Giants have not done that in any older editions other than fourth.

yes, and I am no fan of it. 2024 makes this worse


or simply not 5e but an earlier version... Personally I am interested in what Mike Mearls does with it

How does it make it worse. I don't even agree with Nevin that the power scaling has gotten notably higher.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I should point out that the Green Dragon Statblock has likely changed. Though it still feels weird for me to hear you complain that that a super powerful magical monster has a magical attack.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So you say this about all previous editions as well then. Hill Giants have not done that in any older editions other than fourth.

How does it make it worse. I don't even agree with Nevin that the power scaling has gotten notably higher.

Plenty of games I like have flaws. All of them actually. But that doesn't change what I said. If a creature logically should be able to do something, then the rules should allow it.

 

[Hussar]

no, not particularly. I do not like the high magic trend of 2024 in general

Ahh, well, that ship sailed a LONG time ago. 5e has always gone very, very high magic. The classes, the entire system, is high magic. So, yeah, if that's what's tipping you over, then, well, I can get on board there. I've been lamenting how high magic D&D has become since the release of 5e in 2014.