I've made up my mind...for now.

the Lorax

First Post
I've been playing D&D (under one name or another) since the very end of '79. The following is a bit of a recap of my experience with D&D along with my group and my thoughts on comming 4th edition.

For me, AD&D was a much appreciated upgrade to the 3 book set from the old White Box, and the Basic and Expert sets. Everyone could finally look at the same versions of the "rules", and everyone was in blissful ignorance.

From my perspective, 2nd edition was unlooked for and unappreciated - nothing changed in any meaningful way, my old yellow boardered DM screens were about as useful as they had been. For me however, the my gaming had opened up new horizions, as I met many of my best friends in '89, at least half a dozen of which I still game with. Slowly the game creeped away from 1st edition, until Skills and Powers and other books of its time really took the game to new (again, unasked for) levels of complexity. TSR tanked, very little support information, or heck even news of what the heck was going on was getting out. Everyone was satisfied, but always looking for ways to squeeze a dime out of a nickel.

When 3rd edition came out, most of my gaming friends eagerly adapted. Exploring the new edition with renewed interest in the game. Here was a version that embraced usage of a single mechanic to resolve everything. High was always good, and all actions were resolved using a d20. No more d10 for initiative (or d6 before that), d% for thief skills and d20 for attacks and saves. Multi-classing was much cleaner. Everyone was happy.

3.5 came out, and there was grumbling. Everything that you though you knew you had to double check. Especially spells. Many things seemed to change just because the vocal minority cried loud enough to be heard on message boards. For the most part though, most of the changes fixed issues, or attempted to stop abuses. At length, everyone was accepting.

4th edition is now rearing its head. Nobody in any of my play groups are looking forward to it. I actually like some of the things I'm hearing, but am a bit confused. The Core Rulebooks will be here by summer 2008, but frome everything we keep hearing, basic nature of the rules are still in flux. I'm not sure how you can manage to playtest rules that are still being rewritten as I write this and have completed books ready by this comming summer, but maybe things happen faster in the game rules publishing circles than I believe they do. I have mountains of 3.0/3.5 referance materials, and have not asked for a new version, nor was I looking for one any more than I was looking for a completely revised version of Microsoft Word.

4th edition sounds like it will be a cool edition - I may well even play it at some point. For now, I have 3 good 3.5e campaigns that I am wrapping up, and I dont plan on looking to use 4e for my next group of campaigns - and my campaigns usually last for a couple of years.

I'm REALLY happy with the Pathfinder books, the adventures/settings are really nice, and seem to be very well suited for ripping apart and using piecemeal if that what you wanted to do (and sometimes I do). That stuff alone should keep me going for a while.

I have source books that I have used almost nothing from, I'm looking at the game I use to pass the time in the company of good friends and see no compelling reason to "upgrade" and be forced to learn a new tool set, even if those new tools may help me run the game.

For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?
 

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KingCrab

First Post
the Lorax said:
I'm not sure how you can manage to playtest rules that are still being rewritten as I write this and have completed books ready by this comming summer, but maybe things happen faster in the game rules publishing circles than I believe they do.

This is one of my biggest 4e concerns. I think it's extra important to playtest this game a lot since they are promising no 4.5. Yet, they still seem to be writing and developing the rules now (I'm getting this from the descriptions they've given.) How can they playtest enough (in such little time) to get the balance right?
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
the Lorax said:
For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?
For me, it is about the fact that I've played SOOO much in the current edition that I'm ready to try something different. Plus, I'm tired of dealing with a lot of the issues that have come up over the years in 3.5e.

I'm tired of searching the PHB every round trying to figure out what the NPCs spells do, dealing with grappling rules, dealing with endless discussions about whether it's better to take 1 level of Spellsword before heading into Dragon Slayer in order to get the highest BAB with the highest caster level, tired of being reminded by my players over and over again about casting on the defensive and attacks of opportunity, remembering all the small exceptions to every rule.

I just want a ruleset that gives me the advantages of 3e (codified rules, more balance, not having to make up constant house rules) without the above disadvantages. 4e appears to provide that.
 

Simon Marks

First Post
the Lorax said:
For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?

I can no longer spend the amount of time it takes to run 3.5 that it takes me.

I enjoy running D&D, but 3.5 has ground me into dust with DM prep time. I never liked AD&D (1st or 2nd), and my group doesn't like BECMI D&D.

If 4e is quicker prep time than 3.5, and is fun to play, we'll play.

Simpler prep time, smoother playing, less handling time. 4e promises these things. If it delivers I'll be happer.
 

the Lorax said:
For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?


simply put 4e is moveing more away from what i think of as d&d . it may in its self be a good system , but doesnt look to be my kind of game if i want to play superheros i have m&m or could try exalted to much change just for change heck they seem the be killing the whole herd . and i have a lot invested in my 3e books and my group is well and happy with 3e so for the gamers going on to 4e hope yall have fun , me and my group are sticking with 3e.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
the Lorax said:
For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?

I am still very undecided about what to do, because while some important changes would move the game towards a direction I would certainly appreciate, other major changes would move it farther away. At the moment it looks like at the end it still won't be the "perfect game" for me, and it won't be any significantly closer to it, so I question why I should spend 100e or more, plus the effort of learning the new rules, if it simply won't make my game better.

Plus, it looks so different from earlier D&D, that in my wallet it will compete with any other fantasy RPG ruleset. If it had been more continuous with previous editions, it would have certainly had an advantage over the other games.

At the moment I am instead considering buying some OD&D, a much cheaper investment and with less dislikeable thing I would have to swallow.
 

Chris_Nightwing

First Post
Majoru Oakheart said:
For me, it is about the fact that I've played SOOO much in the current edition that I'm ready to try something different. Plus, I'm tired of dealing with a lot of the issues that have come up over the years in 3.5e.

I'm tired of searching the PHB every round trying to figure out what the NPCs spells do, dealing with grappling rules, dealing with endless discussions about whether it's better to take 1 level of Spellsword before heading into Dragon Slayer in order to get the highest BAB with the highest caster level, tired of being reminded by my players over and over again about casting on the defensive and attacks of opportunity, remembering all the small exceptions to every rule.

I just want a ruleset that gives me the advantages of 3e (codified rules, more balance, not having to make up constant house rules) without the above disadvantages. 4e appears to provide that.


It's this sort of thing that drove me insane. I'm not an in-depth preparatory DM, and I get by, but I found it utterly impossible towards the end of my games to challenge the players with anything meaningful, anything interesting, it was very much "we kill it easily" or "why did you give it that, we all died". I became disillusioned. I tried d20 Modern for a while, found it has some nice features, but it wasn't D&D. Then SWSE came out and I was astonished that D&D -wasn't- like that. Unified mechanics, nice character options, clean multiclassing. That's what I want from 4e.
 

delericho

Legend
the Lorax said:
For everyone else out there, I wanna know, why do you (or don't you) want to do 4e?

I really wanted to like 4e. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of the current edition, and would very much like to see some simplification, especially when it comes to DM preparation.

However, so many of the things coming out of WotC these days leave me cold. It started with the Asmodeus thing, but quickly spread to all the flavour changes in general, and then moved on to some of the rules stuff. The whole thing just leaves me cold.

So, it doesn't look like I'll be switching, although it remains possible.
 

Najo

First Post
delericho said:
I really wanted to like 4e. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of the current edition, and would very much like to see some simplification, especially when it comes to DM preparation.

However, so many of the things coming out of WotC these days leave me cold. It started with the Asmodeus thing, but quickly spread to all the flavour changes in general, and then moved on to some of the rules stuff. The whole thing just leaves me cold.

So, it doesn't look like I'll be switching, although it remains possible.

I have it on good word from within the company that DMing 4e is going to be amazing. They wanted to make it easy to do, fun and still challenge the players. In this realm alone, the game sounds worth trying.

With that said, as long as the character creation is satisifying and we can still get the same degree of gaming (or better) as with previous editions, you can always change story elements your not wild about back to 3.5 D&D easy enough.
 

vagabundo

Adventurer
I'm in too, I'm looking forward to being able to spend less time prepping rules and spells like I do now. After 6th level or so every largish encounter involving magic I have to do a dry run in my head, search though core books to read all the spell descriptions and lookout for gottyas/pitfalls.

I dont get to run anything on the fly as I have to just fudge everything. I like on the fly i'm hoping 4e will allow me to spend more time building a living world and nice story arcs. I enjoy seeing where the players go and changing things on the fly, 3.5e restricts that and I'm hoping 4e wont...
 

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