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I've made up my mind...for now.

Doc Eldritch

First Post
In a way, I agree with Renfield, about the Scrying issue. There are lower level Scrying rituals (and you can always add more), but the cost on the higher level ones (and some of the lowers) is silly. I already plan to cut those costs by quite a bit, perhaps even reworking them entirely. I do love the idea of components for rituals though, as I can put them in treasures now, and have them be of "in game" use.
So, finding 1000 gp worth of rare alchemical components in that lich's lab is not just treasure flavour now, it is ritual material!
 

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Jhaelen

First Post
Doc Eldritch said:
There are lower level Scrying rituals (and you can always add more), but the cost on the higher level ones (and some of the lowers) is silly.
If you express a ritual's cost as a percentage of a character's wealth at the level the ritual is available the cost stays exactly the same. Everything's fine as it is. Really!
 

Ydars

Explorer
Lots of 4E mechanics LOOK ridiculous; if you are an avid 3.5E player and have all the pre-conceptions this implies.

If you let go of these pre-conceptions and PLAY the game, you will find that many of the "problems" vanish.

Having said this, the only part of 4E that has been properly play-tested is the combat system; the skill challenge system is messed up big time.
 

Khaim

First Post
I just wanted to play devil's advocate here.

the Lorax said:
So a bought PHB, the pages are a bit wavy and the ink is very smudgy.
The layout is...not how I would like it.
Well, I can't really say what went wrong with your printing. My books are perfect. As far as layout, yes, there are some things that are hard to find. You know what? There were things that were hard to find in 3e, too. And at least we have white pages now, and none of that tan stuff that makes it hard to read the text.

the Lorax said:
:1: This is not recognizable anymore by me as D&D. It has begun to fall into the realm of games like Paladium which obviously have similar base but are different.
It sure seems like D&D to me. It says so right on the cover!

Or to put it another way, I have no idea what you mean. What is D&D? What about 4e is so different that it's no longer the same game?

the Lorax said:
:2: In designing characters, I feel very straight jacketed. Not just by class level, but within a class itself. I can't sneak attack with a big stick? My Ranger must be Drizzt or Legolas?
No, you can't sneak attack with a big stick, because that doesn't make any sense. It never did. And your ranger had to be "Drizzt or Legolas" last edition, too. Were you complaining then? At least now he actually is, instead of being a wannabe.

the Lorax said:
:3: Skill Challenges? Really? Did anyone in design/playtesting work out the math here?
Okay, you've got that one. Skill challenges are so broken it's not funny. If you do the math, it's even worse.

the Lorax said:
:4: In 3.0, I was THRILLED with removal of NPC only abilities, and PCs using the same rules as NPCs - seeing them return in humanoid monster stat blocks is annoying, no matter how cool and interesting the ability is on its own.
Well, maybe that's a relic from the 2->3 transition. Having started with 3e, I'm thrilled to see NPC only rules, finally. And I made three totally different monsters the other day, completely from scratch. It took me less than an hour. I wouldn't even be done with feats, much less skills, in 3e.

The designers realized that PC abilities and NPC abilities serve very, very different purposes. An NPC (well, an enemy that you fight) is going to show up in one combat, and gets to use his abilities once, if he's lucky. Giving him the full breadth of options a PC has is overkill, and also makes him boring. Do you really want the PC fighter and the NPC fighter sitting there doing identical moves on each other?

the Lorax said:
:5: All this talk of new options in combat is really bunk - options exisited in 3.x combat as well, Grapple, Charge, Sunder, Disarm, Trip, Bull Rush, ect. Movement in combat was a perfectly viable option, even if some weren't able to see the tactical advantage of it.
They existed in 3e, yes. But they also didn't matter. Sunder, disarm, trip, bull rush, all of these were a waste of a turn in 3e. (Trip could work if you built a trip-monkey, but that's another story.)
Movement? I'll tell you why some didn't see the tactical advantage: there wasn't any! You were either next to the monster, or you weren't. And you certainly didn't want your fighter moving; he'd lose his iterative attacks. Sure, lots of creative players would move around and pretend they were doing something, but they would have been just as effective standing in one spot.
 

Lurks-no-More

First Post
Renfield said:
Well that's your opinion. I honestly don't see any reason scrying should be epic level to begin with, whether relative cost is worthwhile or not.
The ease of using divination spells to solve mystery plots, and to discover hidden things and enemies, was one of the most commonly criticized traits in 3e. Anything that makes the infamous Scry-buff-Teleport tactic less viable is a good thing, in my opinion.
 

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