I've never played AD&D1

[Lanefan]

We used to declare actions before the round, a long time ago, and somehow slowly slipped away from it...probably because there's so many times when circumstances change within the round and realism demands there be a chance to react.

Then again, we also re-roll initiatives each round (and have never used any of the various 1e modifiers; too complicated), so you usually don't know beforehand exactly when you'll be acting in relation to anyone else...again, more realistic.

1e surprise has always been something I quite liked. Never mind that if you're surprised, the number you rolled on the d6 is how many full attack rounds the opponent with surprise gets to whale on you with before you can react. (i.e. if you're surprised on 1-2, and you roll a 2, the opponent(s) with surprise get 2 full rounds of attacks against your surprised little party...) This is what makes Yeti in snow just deadly...they surprise on a 1-4, and if you roll a 4 (like my group did), you're in trouble! 4 party members dead before they knew what hit them...

Lanefan

 

[WSmith]

Believe it or not, this is more often the rule than the exception.

I started with the Holmes box set and shortly went on to AD&D hardcovers. Our actual games with the core group of friends I played with were a hodgepodge of OD&D, Holmes, and AD&D. There are many reasons why many gamers discover that years later that they we not truely playing btb AD&D. I will only go into one for now, and one that I can personally attest to.

The actual tabletop group I started with were transitioning from OD&D. I started with the Holmes set, which gives the impression (well at least to a 10 year old WSmith) that if you want to go further beyond level 3, you need the AD&D PHB, MM, DMG, etc. So, you hit level 3, now what do you do? Well, get the PHB and continue on to level 4. With this comes an assumption (again, at least to a 10 year old me and my buddies) that most of the rules are the same. Therefore, forget reading the combat section, as we already know how to do that part. The end result is a game with AD&D characters, spells, and monsters operating under OD&D rules. That is my experience, at least.

 

[T. Foster]

OK, this is the one-sheet I am using for the NC Gameday this weekend. It doesn't follow the "accepted" rules precisely, and in fact, I'm more likely going to ignore the "melee vs. spellcasting when the melee side lost" part, because it adds too much complication to the table. But this is a one-sheet meant to make it relatively easy to pick up 1E combat at a game table.

Nice summary, Henry. The rules certainly look much more palatable on a 1 page document like that than the 20pp of ADDICT.

The only change I'd suggest is to be a little more explicit (it's mentioned, but in a sort of "by the way" manner that's easy to overlook) that the special cases in step 7 only apply when the caster's side wins initiative. When the caster's side loses initiative then opponents are able to get attacks in before the spell is completed, regardless of what the "segment dice" might otherwise suggest.

 

[WSmith]

1e surprise has always been something I quite liked. Never mind that if you're surprised, the number you rolled on the d6 is how many full attack rounds the opponent with surprise gets to whale on you with before you can react. (i.e. if you're surprised on 1-2, and you roll a 2, the opponent(s) with surprise get 2 full rounds of attacks against your surprised little party...) This is what makes Yeti in snow just deadly...they surprise on a 1-4, and if you roll a 4 (like my group did), you're in trouble! 4 party members dead before they knew what hit them...

Lanefan

A much glossed over rule that most DMs ignore on purpose (as you will se in a second why) is the fact that if you have missile weapons ready, and surprise your enemy, you get 3X your rate of fire (ROF) worth of attacks on your foe per SEGMENT!!!. So, let's do the math. If you are a ranger that surprises on a 1-3 on a d6 roll, and have a bow ready which has a ROF of 2, and your enemy rolls a 3 on his surprise die, guess what? Strickly by the rule, you are entitled to a whopping 6 attacks per segment OR a total of 18 shots for the entrie surprise!

 

[T. Foster]

A much glossed over rule that most DMs ignore on purpose (as you will se in a second why) is the fact that if you have missile weapons ready, and surprise your enemy, you get 3X your rate of fire (ROF) worth of attacks on your foe per SEGMENT!!!. So, let's do the math. If you are a ranger that surprises on a 1-3 on a d6 roll, and have a bow ready which has a ROF of 2, and your enemy rolls a 3 on his surprise die, guess what? Strickly by the rule, you are entitled to a whopping 6 attacks per segment OR a total of 18 shots for the entrie surprise!

...or if you're an elf or halfing who surprises 1-4 and your opponents roll a 4: 24 shots! Or if you're using UA and you're a 7th+ level elf bow specialist (ROF 3) and your opponents roll a 4: 36 shots!

 

[Quasqueton]

And you don't have to take it all the way to the extreme numbers -- just one segment of surprise to someone with a bow ready [not even a specialist, just a plain fighter, thief, ranger, etc.] = 6 shots. And that doesn't even require a twisted interpretation of the rules to get. It is clearly stated.

The example in the DMG that cracked me up (the example EGG wrote and included, himself) shows:

Party A is surprised 2 in 6. Party B is surprised 1 in 6.
A rolls a 2, B rolls a 1 = *A* is surprised for one segment. But A rolled higher!

Quasqueton

 

[WSmith]

...or if you're an elf or halfing who surprises 1-4 and your opponents roll a 4: 24 shots! Or if you're using UA and you're a 7th+ level elf bow specialist (ROF 3) and your opponents roll a 4: 36 shots!

I can see it now.

DM: "Why does Eleran the Elven Archer Extrodinare carry two quivers of arrow at all times?"
Player: "Well, if I get 4 segments of surprise on someone, I want to have enough arrows."



I think, though I cannot confirm this, that the rule was actually though of for the purpose of thrown or hurled weapons, for which it doesn't get to crazy, as you usually run out of daggers or spears before you run out of attacks.

 

[WSmith]

The example in the DMG that cracked me up (the example EGG wrote and included, himself) shows:

Party A is surprised 2 in 6. Party B is surprised 1 in 6.
A rolls a 2, B rolls a 1 = *A* is surprised for one segment. But A rolled higher!

Quasqueton

This takes some getting used to. The idea here is that you want to get as close to the number 1 on your surprise die within whatever parameters are for being surprised (1-2 normal, 1-3 by ranger, 1-4 by elf proper, etc.) The optimal outcome is to roll as high as possible to avoid being surprised, but if you are surprised you want as low a number as possible.

Kooky and slightly wacky? Well, maybe. But that is how it goes.

 

[WSmith]

Nice summary, Henry. The rules certainly look much more palatable on a 1 page document like that than the 20pp of ADDICT.

The only change I'd suggest is to be a little more explicit (it's mentioned, but in a sort of "by the way" manner that's easy to overlook) that the special cases in step 7 only apply when the caster's side wins initiative. When the caster's side loses initiative then opponents are able to get attacks in before the spell is completed, regardless of what the "segment dice" might otherwise suggest.

YEs, very nice summary. I altered 7B in my copy, just cause it seems to agree with me better.

b. If casting time of the spell is greater than the result of the caster's party's initiative roll, all other actions by opponents occur prior to the spell going off. If the casting time is equal to the caster's party's initiative roll, then actions of the opposing party occur simultaneously with the spell going off.

Entry 8D is missing some segments.

One thing to not forget is when a battle is strictly spell vs. spell, you can disrgard a die roll as you only need to compare casting times, with the lower winning.

 

[dcas]

I think, though I cannot confirm this, that the rule was actually though of for the purpose of thrown or hurled weapons, for which it doesn't get to crazy, as you usually run out of daggers or spears before you run out of attacks.

My guess is that ROF was meant to be tripled -- but only per round. The other way has ROF increasing by a factor of 30.