Knightfall
World of Kulan DM
I have that book. It is awesome and funny as hell. Get it if you can. Your 3e campaigns will NEVER be the same again.
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Jack Vance Dying Earth RPG ending, Sale, Experiences?
- Thread starter Voadam
- Start date
Galloglaich
First Post
I'm a little biased 
But I think the Primer is a great book and the Dying Earth RPG is fantastic.
I am the author of the Primer of Practical Magic, which I did free lance for Pelgrane four years ago. Basically I was such a Jack Vance nut when I found out they had the license for a Dying Earth game, I was determined to get involved somehow. Robin Laws had already done the game itself so I suggested doing a D20 book, and Simon was nice enough to humor me.
The Primer has a very different feel from DERPG, it's funny but it was written more as an attempt to re-introduce the true Vancian magic system to DnD in a kind of Gygaxian context, if that means anything. I think it's got a lot of great spells you can use for DnD, particularly low-level spells, I made up probably 20 new cantrips and converted all the hilarious, quirky spells Pelgrane created for DERPG. They are all really wierd and indirect, many are adventure hooks in and of themselves. Plus there are a lot of really bizarrely wonderful magic items.
To be honest the Primer was kind of tanked by reviewers, who criticized it for having balance issues with some of the spells, so keep in mind if you use it you may have to make some adjustments. But I liked it It was kind of hard to reconcile the very open ended, 'fill in the details with your imagination' mentality of Jack Vance with the Balance at all Costs, explain everything to the nth degree mentality of 3E, but I did my best.
There was also a "Codicilliary" (errata) page somewhere with a lot of extras and a few useful corrections, I'm not sure if they still have it up, if you email Simon at Pelgrane I'm sure he could get it for you.
I love the Dying Earth Role Playing game though I've only actually played one campaign several years ago. Those games stand out in my memory is some of the most fun game nights I ever had. The problem for me is definitely in finding the right group. I usually play with non-gamers who can be a little too shy for all that role playing, but even among gamers and fantasy geeks, in spite of how cool the Dying Earth novels are, surprisingly few people I've met ever seem to have read them in the US (personally I think Jack Vances humor is a little too subversive for most Americans, Cugel the Clever is a far cry from Aragorn or Drzzt!). But I agree if you have a group capable of playing Paranoia you should have one who could 'get' DERPG fairly easily, I think it will really open up a completely unexpected and fun dimension to the Fantasy RPG genre. (Especially if you like low-fantasy and have a good sense of humor)
I think all of Pelgranes DERPG stuff is really good, my personal favorites are probably the little magazine they did (I'm biased here again because I wrote a few articles in them) called the Excellent Prismatic Spray. These have all kinds of terrific adventure hooks and funny, seditious little ideas that I have used in my regular / houseruled DnD games over the years with great success. If you want to inject a little truly unique, funny, and quintissentially old school (in a good way) feel to your DnD game, you can't go wrong with this stuff.
G.
But I think the Primer is a great book and the Dying Earth RPG is fantastic.I am the author of the Primer of Practical Magic, which I did free lance for Pelgrane four years ago. Basically I was such a Jack Vance nut when I found out they had the license for a Dying Earth game, I was determined to get involved somehow. Robin Laws had already done the game itself so I suggested doing a D20 book, and Simon was nice enough to humor me.
The Primer has a very different feel from DERPG, it's funny but it was written more as an attempt to re-introduce the true Vancian magic system to DnD in a kind of Gygaxian context, if that means anything. I think it's got a lot of great spells you can use for DnD, particularly low-level spells, I made up probably 20 new cantrips and converted all the hilarious, quirky spells Pelgrane created for DERPG. They are all really wierd and indirect, many are adventure hooks in and of themselves. Plus there are a lot of really bizarrely wonderful magic items.
To be honest the Primer was kind of tanked by reviewers, who criticized it for having balance issues with some of the spells, so keep in mind if you use it you may have to make some adjustments. But I liked it
It was kind of hard to reconcile the very open ended, 'fill in the details with your imagination' mentality of Jack Vance with the Balance at all Costs, explain everything to the nth degree mentality of 3E, but I did my best.There was also a "Codicilliary" (errata) page somewhere with a lot of extras and a few useful corrections, I'm not sure if they still have it up, if you email Simon at Pelgrane I'm sure he could get it for you.
I love the Dying Earth Role Playing game though I've only actually played one campaign several years ago. Those games stand out in my memory is some of the most fun game nights I ever had. The problem for me is definitely in finding the right group. I usually play with non-gamers who can be a little too shy for all that role playing, but even among gamers and fantasy geeks, in spite of how cool the Dying Earth novels are, surprisingly few people I've met ever seem to have read them in the US (personally I think Jack Vances humor is a little too subversive for most Americans, Cugel the Clever is a far cry from Aragorn or Drzzt!). But I agree if you have a group capable of playing Paranoia you should have one who could 'get' DERPG fairly easily, I think it will really open up a completely unexpected and fun dimension to the Fantasy RPG genre. (Especially if you like low-fantasy and have a good sense of humor)
I think all of Pelgranes DERPG stuff is really good, my personal favorites are probably the little magazine they did (I'm biased here again because I wrote a few articles in them) called the Excellent Prismatic Spray. These have all kinds of terrific adventure hooks and funny, seditious little ideas that I have used in my regular / houseruled DnD games over the years with great success. If you want to inject a little truly unique, funny, and quintissentially old school (in a good way) feel to your DnD game, you can't go wrong with this stuff.
G.
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Voadam
Legend
I was going to ask about the Primer's codicil as it is mentioned in one of the rpg.net reviews but I couldn't find it in the Pelgrane downloads section.
Looking back at the Primer's description page on rpgnow it says "This version includes a newly updated twenty-page codiciliary, with additional material and errata" so having bought the Primer I guess I'm all covered.
I've found Vance hard to find. I've only seen his sci-fi Demon Princes books in the library so that's all I've read of him. I would love for my library to get the Dying Earth books on audio CD and listen to them on my commute, but I don't think that is likely.
Looking back at the Primer's description page on rpgnow it says "This version includes a newly updated twenty-page codiciliary, with additional material and errata" so having bought the Primer I guess I'm all covered.
I've found Vance hard to find. I've only seen his sci-fi Demon Princes books in the library so that's all I've read of him. I would love for my library to get the Dying Earth books on audio CD and listen to them on my commute, but I don't think that is likely.
Robin_D_Laws
Explorer
Glad to see some interest in the Dying Earth line, and I hope as many people as possible pick it up now that it's about to go away forever.
The play style it supports is indeed very different from D&D, with an emphasis on bizarre wonder and verbal skullduggery over combat and treasure hunting.
We often found that players were reluctant to jump on board because they were afraid they couldn't replicate the elaborate Vancian language. But after a few minutes, everyone found themselves talking in this contagious manner, deploying their taglines with recondite abandon.
There, I'm doing it now...
The play style it supports is indeed very different from D&D, with an emphasis on bizarre wonder and verbal skullduggery over combat and treasure hunting.
We often found that players were reluctant to jump on board because they were afraid they couldn't replicate the elaborate Vancian language. But after a few minutes, everyone found themselves talking in this contagious manner, deploying their taglines with recondite abandon.
There, I'm doing it now...
Voadam
Legend
All right, I spent too much time late last night reading stuff in the DERPG and the Primer plus its codicil.
I really like the various styles for each of the attributes and the succinct core mechanic of DERPG. The styles look like great hooks for roleplay characterization.
Jeandry, thanks for writing the Primer and Robin thanks for writing the RPG, I'm enjoying reading them both so far.
Robin I can see the verbal skulldugery emphasis immediately, with the writing style of the books, the taglines, and mechanics for persuasion and vice being emphasized. Can you elaborate on how the game supports emphasizing bizarre wonder? This part appeals to me but the emphasis outside of the Vancian flavor of the world and stories does not jump out at me yet.
I'm being more and more tempted by the Cugdel and Turjan level modules now as well as by the prismatic spray stuff.
I really like the various styles for each of the attributes and the succinct core mechanic of DERPG. The styles look like great hooks for roleplay characterization.
Jeandry, thanks for writing the Primer and Robin thanks for writing the RPG, I'm enjoying reading them both so far.
Robin I can see the verbal skulldugery emphasis immediately, with the writing style of the books, the taglines, and mechanics for persuasion and vice being emphasized. Can you elaborate on how the game supports emphasizing bizarre wonder? This part appeals to me but the emphasis outside of the Vancian flavor of the world and stories does not jump out at me yet.
I'm being more and more tempted by the Cugdel and Turjan level modules now as well as by the prismatic spray stuff.
Galloglaich
First Post
Hi Robin, nice to see you here!
I have a question of my own for you. I never did understand why the Dying Earth RPG never got more traction in the RPG community. You have a very good reputation as a game designer, Jack Vance has a very good reputation among gamers and fantasy literature readers, the game itself was exceptionally well put together, and I think Simon Rogers / Pelgrane did a pretty good job of promoting it, (at least I saw ads for it around). But somehow nobody ever seemed to know what I was talking about whenever I brought the game up. Someone upthread made a good point that you could compare it quite well with Paranoia, which was very popular and seems to be more widely known.
So why do you think DERPG never found a similar niche? Objectively I think it's one of the top 5 or 6 RPGs ever made, I thought it had huge potential, and while I know it sold reasonably well, I just don't understand why it didn't make more of an impression on the gaming community. Did it do better in Europe? I know there are a lot more Jack Vance fans in Holland, the UK and France than in the US for some reason.
Also, any insight as to what is going on with the license? Did someone else buy it? or did it just expire?
G.
I have a question of my own for you. I never did understand why the Dying Earth RPG never got more traction in the RPG community. You have a very good reputation as a game designer, Jack Vance has a very good reputation among gamers and fantasy literature readers, the game itself was exceptionally well put together, and I think Simon Rogers / Pelgrane did a pretty good job of promoting it, (at least I saw ads for it around). But somehow nobody ever seemed to know what I was talking about whenever I brought the game up. Someone upthread made a good point that you could compare it quite well with Paranoia, which was very popular and seems to be more widely known.
So why do you think DERPG never found a similar niche? Objectively I think it's one of the top 5 or 6 RPGs ever made, I thought it had huge potential, and while I know it sold reasonably well, I just don't understand why it didn't make more of an impression on the gaming community. Did it do better in Europe? I know there are a lot more Jack Vance fans in Holland, the UK and France than in the US for some reason.
Also, any insight as to what is going on with the license? Did someone else buy it? or did it just expire?
G.
Voadam
Legend
It's too bad the pdf storm hit right now, I'm afraid the last chance for Vance PDFs is being obscured by the WotC news, the tons of other pdf sales in reaction, and even the surprise addition of palladium reversing its policy and releasing pdfs.
I'm enjoying what I've been reading in the DERPG books and picked up EPS 6 last night. I'm eyeing the Rhialto and Cudgel supplements now.
I'm enjoying what I've been reading in the DERPG books and picked up EPS 6 last night. I'm eyeing the Rhialto and Cudgel supplements now.
Scribble
First Post
Hrmm... The witty and penniless might be a tougher conversion, but I thing the moraly suspect con-men would be pretty easy.
Galloglaich
First Post
I like them both, but particularly reccomend the Cugel one, it's one of my favorite RPG books of all time. Great little mini adventure / adventure hook section in there.
I think I have something in XPS 6, is there an adventure built around bribing a judge during a feast in that one?
G.
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