D&D 4E JamesonCourage's First 4e Session

[Neonchameleon]

Thinking on it, I'm considering just swapping the character out for an NPC, and coming up with an explanation. Any race/class combo could potentially work, but I'm thinking a simple controller (preferably ranged). Barring that, a simple striker with a controller's touch. Any ideas? [MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION]?

Hunter - human or elf. It's a simple ranged controller (an archer ranger).. No dailies to track. Pick a stance and leave it in there (or just give a flat +1 to hit and tier to damage to lower book keeping even further). Encounter powers are all daze or immobilise (save ends) plus single arrow damage and you can choose. Which just leaves their at wills as the real choices.

 

[D'karr]

I'd rather leave it at 4 "PCs", since I don't know during prep whether or not she'll make it to the session.I was considering this. It's more striker-y, but if I go cold or something, it has a controller feel to it. And she's got a striker feel to her Wizard already (feat for bonus damage when damaging two or more targets... Destructive Wizardry, or something?). I'm just not sure how well it'd work with a genasi.I'm not sure how this would work, really (I don't see a tool for it anywhere with DDi). I also don't know what you mean by "cancel each other out" by using a standard monster; if we're back to budgeting XP around 3 PCs, then this isn't the solution I'm looking for either.But yes, the hard part is keeping the utility of the Wizard; she's very knowledgeable (skill selection), has all the cantrips for substituting Arcana, etc. I'm willing to lose some of that, though, if it means a simpler character for me to run.

Companion characters are described in DMG2. It would also be my preferred recommendation. The character keeps a very simple core for you to run. They would still be a help in combats, exploration, etc. However they present very little overhead.

Think of a companion character almost as a PC compressed into an NPC/Monster stat block. They retain their ability scores, skills, defenses and HP, but have limited encounter/daily powers. In this way you could retain the basics of the character (race, etc.) that make it flavorful, and some signature combat effectiveness (preferred power(s)). But it would be super simple to run in the game with its limited powers (limited overhead).

 

[Manbearcat]

I'd rather leave it at 4 "PCs", since I don't know during prep whether or not she'll make it to the session.I was considering this. It's more striker-y, but if I go cold or something, it has a controller feel to it. And she's got a striker feel to her Wizard already (feat for bonus damage when damaging two or more targets... Destructive Wizardry, or something?). I'm just not sure how well it'd work with a genasi.

Genasi (Watersoul?) Water Elementalist

1) Switch Int and Cha
2) Take Ice Prison
3) Take Arcane Mutterings (level 2 encounter Skill Power > lets you sub Arcana for Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate).
4) Use Background, Feats, Theme, Skills that you have.
5) If you want, you could take Fey Bond (+ 2 Bluff, Diplomacy, speak/read/write Elven and entry to this next feat...) and Fey Cantrip (one Wizard Cantrip). There you could take any Wizard Cantrip you desire.

I'm not sure how this would work, really (I don't see a tool for it anywhere with DDi). I also don't know what you mean by "cancel each other out" by using a standard monster; if we're back to budgeting XP around 3 PCs, then this isn't the solution I'm looking for either.But yes, the hard part is keeping the utility of the Wizard; she's very knowledgeable (skill selection), has all the cantrips for substituting Arcana, etc. I'm willing to lose some of that, though, if it means a simpler character for me to run.

Not in CB. DMG2 has the rules. Remember how I created that Valkyrie Companion character (and I was going to create that Psion's Wall of Consciousness as a Defender for the group)? Those use the Companion Character rules. They're very simple and require minimal overhead (even less than the Elementalist reskin).

Theoretically, a PC equals one monster in the encounter budget. However, PCs (obviously) are more powerful than monsters (as intended), primarily due to their staying power, unlocking of surges throughout play, and nova capabilities. Companion Characters are not as powerful as PCs, primarily due to a weaker * nova *( [MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION], I didn't include that very relevant word). You would still be budgeting for 4 characters. I just suggested always having a standard to cancel out the Companion Character because it will probably make the budgeting more predictable (in terms of the output you desire). While the two would cancel each other out (budget-wise), they would both still count toward the total budget and the force-multiplication for their respective sides.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Hunter - human or elf. It's a simple ranged controller (an archer ranger).. No dailies to track. Pick a stance and leave it in there (or just give a flat +1 to hit and tier to damage to lower book keeping even further). Encounter powers are all daze or immobilise (save ends) plus single arrow damage and you can choose. Which just leaves their at wills as the real choices.

Sounds like a good option for me. The at-wills can be a little more complicated, though (Clever Shot has three options every time I use it). Makes me reconsider going with the Sorcerer (Elementalist) with cold, which seems more straightforward (not necessarily better). Though the character has some nice utility, which is good, since the Wizard I'd be replacing has a lot as well.

Companion characters are described in DMG2. It would also be my preferred recommendation. The character keeps a very simple core for you to run. They would still be a help in combats, exploration, etc. However they present very little overhead.

I never did pick up the book, even after Manbearcat generously offered to purchase it for me. I try to reference the books as little as possible, for some reason.

Think of a companion character almost as a PC compressed into an NPC/Monster stat block. They retain their ability scores, skills, defenses and HP, but have limited encounter/daily powers. In this way you could retain the basics of the character (race, etc.) that make it flavorful, and some signature combat effectiveness (preferred power(s)). But it would be super simple to run in the game with its limited powers (limited overhead).

Yeah, I was going to use one as a 4th PC at one point (before the Wizard player joined), and it was going to be a summoned warrior of Kord, if I remember. Definitely barbarian-influenced, from what I recall. I believe Manbearcat made the stat write-up, if I recall correctly.I'm considering doing something like this anyway (just using the Monster Builder). I'm not 100%, but I did it for the bard that was traveling with the party. I could do that again.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Genasi (Watersoul?) Water Elementalist

1) Switch Int and Cha
2) Take Ice Prison
3) Take Arcane Mutterings (level 2 encounter Skill Power > lets you sub Arcana for Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate).
4) Use Background, Feats, Theme, Skills that you have.
5) If you want, you could take Fey Bond (+ 2 Bluff, Diplomacy, speak/read/write Elven and entry to this next feat...) and Fey Cantrip (one Wizard Cantrip). There you could take any Wizard Cantrip you desire.

This is an option. Arcane Mutterings is a nice touch.

Not in CB. DMG2 has the rules. Remember how I created that Valkyrie Companion character (and I was going to create that Psion's Wall of Consciousness as a Defender for the group)? Those use the Companion Character rules. They're very simple and require minimal overhead (even less than the Elementalist reskin).

Theoretically, a PC equals one monster in the encounter budget. However, PCs (obviously) are more powerful than monsters (as intended), primarily due to their staying power, unlocking of surges throughout play, and nova capabilities. Companion Characters are not as powerful as PCs, primarily due to a weaker. You would still be budgeting for 4 characters. I just suggested always having a standard to cancel out the Companion Character because it will probably make the budgeting more predictable (in terms of the output you desire). While the two would cancel each other out (budget-wise), they would both still count toward the total budget and the force-multiplication for their respective sides.

If companion characters are weaker, I'd rather not do it. If they're not, however, then I'm fine with it. Something to think about, though the Hunter and Elementalist are both tempting.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION]

I have a somewhat radical suggestion that worked at my table for a similar situation. Before I present it, I will echo something [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] alluded to, and that's just letting the PC fade into the background (for whatever narrative reason you agree upon) can work just fine without totally throwing off combat balance. I've done it for various size parties with little issue.

Anyhow, my radical idea is based on the assumption of an unspoken agreement between you and the player: that while you are in control of the wizard PC, she doesn't die. IOW she gets temporary plot protection.

That reminded me of a plot important NPC who was a young boy in my game. I basically treated him like a familiar (see Arcane Power or DDi glossary) with a passive mode (in which he couldn't get hurt) and an active mode. I'm going to suggest you treat the wizard PC similar to how I did my NPC boy - as a familiar in passive mode.

Now, spy our wizard PC has firepower, and to represent that I would work out her DPR (average damage per round), then just apply that to the enemies each round the wizard fights as makes sense in your narrative. Don't worry about tracking her HP and, for the most part, forget about her defenses. Narrate her spell damage however is appropriate for the PC, arc lightning, fireballs, magic missile, whatever. If you want her to cast a signature spell that is control and not damage (like sleep), or to cast a ritual, then you can consult the sheet.

Treat threats to the wizard as a narrative motivator for other PCs. For example, say the party is exploring a catacomb and forget to guard their flank when they encounter some treasure, then the wizard gets ambushed...you could say something like: "The creature wounds the wizard and pins her against the wall, drawing a spectral blade. The wizard has no place to maneuver...unless you separate them quick, it's going to get ugly for the wizard!" Then follow thru on the threat if the PCs don't act, knocking the wizard out of commission (and the narrated damage she deals) until she is healed up.

I know it's fast & loose, but that's the idea. Less for you to think about as DM, and feels a lot like how a wizard (glass cannon) is treated in combat.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I have a somewhat radical suggestion that worked at my table for a similar situation. Before I present it, I will echo something @Manbearcat alluded to, and that's just letting the PC fade into the background (for whatever narrative reason you agree upon) can work just fine without totally throwing off combat balance. I've done it for various size parties with little issue.

This player won't know if she's available until just before we play. Because of that, while I'm prepping, I'm going to assume 4 PCs. I'm not going to make two sets of assumptions (3 PCs or 4 PCs) and then do the work for both; 4e already includes much more prep than what I'm used to. So, basically, I'm going to prep for 4 PCs, and then come up with a solution around that, which probably means having 4 PCs in the party (or something comparable to one in ways it can contribute).

Anyhow, my radical idea is based on the assumption of an unspoken agreement between you and the player: that while you are in control of the wizard PC, she doesn't die. IOW she gets temporary plot protection.

Hmm. I'm not much fond of it so far, but I'm open to it.

That reminded me of a plot important NPC who was a young boy in my game. I basically treated him like a familiar (see Arcane Power or DDi glossary) with a passive mode (in which he couldn't get hurt) and an active mode. I'm going to suggest you treat the wizard PC similar to how I did my NPC boy - as a familiar in passive mode.

Now, spy our wizard PC has firepower, and to represent that I would work out her DPR (average damage per round), then just apply that to the enemies each round the wizard fights as makes sense in your narrative. Don't worry about tracking her HP and, for the most part, forget about her defenses. Narrate her spell damage however is appropriate for the PC, arc lightning, fireballs, magic missile, whatever. If you want her to cast a signature spell that is control and not damage (like sleep), or to cast a ritual, then you can consult the sheet.

Treat threats to the wizard as a narrative motivator for other PCs. For example, say the party is exploring a catacomb and forget to guard their flank when they encounter some treasure, then the wizard gets ambushed...you could say something like: "The creature wounds the wizard and pins her against the wall, drawing a spectral blade. The wizard has no place to maneuver...unless you separate them quick, it's going to get ugly for the wizard!" Then follow thru on the threat if the PCs don't act, knocking the wizard out of commission (and the narrated damage she deals) until she is healed up.

I know it's fast & loose, but that's the idea. Less for you to think about as DM, and feels a lot like how a wizard (glass cannon) is treated in combat.

I'm hesitant to use the "you won't die" idea at all. I'm basically against houseruling this much; part of the appeal to running a 4e game is staying pretty true to the rules. Thanks for putting the time into the idea, but it's definitely not my cup of tea (in general, not just with 4e). Any ideas on classes that would work within the framework of the rules? (I'm a big "rules" guy.)

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION]
Fair enough. My suggestion was solely with an eye toward feel, saving you time/headspace, and rules approximation.

I think you're going to need to provide more details on the character. She's a wizard...but what sort of wizard? What powers is she often using? I've found that - even more than class - what powers and feats a player chooses make the biggest difference in how hard it is to run a PC at the table.

IOW I have no idea, you haven given enough information.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I think you're going to need to provide more details on the character. She's a wizard...but what sort of wizard? What powers is she often using? I've found that - even more than class - what powers and feats a player chooses make the biggest difference in how hard it is to run a PC at the table.

IOW I have no idea, you haven given enough information.

As I mentioned, the Sha'ir subclass. She's a genasi magmasoul. Has Arc Lightning, Hypnotism, Ice Rays (something like that... encounter power, targets up to 2, immobilizes or slows), and a daily that creates fire in a zone. She also has all the cantrips that substitute Arcana for other skills, as well as prestidigitation. An encounter power that hits one target, and deals splash damage to other targets. An encounter power that gives temp HP to someone when a creature drops. Efreeti familiar. Ritual casting feat. A feat that allows her to redirect her own damage to herself and she gains 5 resist against her own damage (N-something Atonement?). Destructive Wizardry (I think the feat is called... bonus to damage for 2 or more targets).

Again, I'm willing to transition this character out when she's gone and bring another (N)PC in, and I'm currently considering either an Elementalist (Water build) or a Hunter. I have an idea how I'd handle the swap each session, as necessary.

 

[Quickleaf]

As I mentioned, the Sha'ir subclass. She's a genasi magmasoul. Has Arc Lightning, Hypnotism, Ice Rays (something like that... encounter power, targets up to 2, immobilizes or slows), and a daily that creates fire in a zone. She also has all the cantrips that substitute Arcana for other skills, as well as prestidigitation. An encounter power that hits one target, and deals splash damage to other targets. An encounter power that gives temp HP to someone when a creature drops. Efreeti familiar. Ritual casting feat. A feat that allows her to redirect her own damage to herself and she gains 5 resist against her own damage (N-something Atonement?). Destructive Wizardry (I think the feat is called... bonus to damage for 2 or more targets).

Again, I'm willing to transition this character out when she's gone and bring another (N)PC in, and I'm currently considering either an Elementalist (Water build) or a Hunter. I have an idea how I'd handle the swap each session, as necessary.

Besides some fiddly feats, she looks like a pretty non-complex wizard build. And you sound like you've got her powers well in hand. I don't think you're going to find much easier while retaining all of her feel... unless you make an NPC Companion build or do some house-ruling. Both which you've made clear you don't want to do. So I guess your best option is learn to love it?