D&D 4E JamesonCourage's First 4e Session

[JamesonCourage]

Besides some fiddly feats, she looks like a pretty non-complex wizard build. And you sound like you've got her powers well in hand. I don't think you're going to find much easier while retaining all of her feel... unless you make an NPC Companion build or do some house-ruling. Both which you've made clear you don't want to do. So I guess your best option is learn to love it?

Haha. I can keep running the PC if push comes to shove, but I don't like hurting the party, so that means spending time deliberately looking over her options every time her turn rolls around. I also sometimes miss her reactions, because I'm also running several different monsters in every fight that sometimes use their own.

I was hoping for something a little more straightforward, but yeah, I can always just soldier on...

 

[Quickleaf]

Haha. I can keep running the PC if push comes to shove, but I don't like hurting the party, so that means spending time deliberately looking over her options every time her turn rolls around. I also sometimes miss her reactions, because I'm also running several different monsters in every fight that sometimes use their own.

I was hoping for something a little more straightforward, but yeah, I can always just soldier on...

Yeah I've been in that boat as DM too!

Maybe you could open up whichever version of the Monster Builder you've got access to and write her PC up in monster format? That might feel more intuitive for you as DM with all the powers organized by action type.

Anyhow, I've found in my games that on those occasions when I do care about "fair and balanced encounter building", I can typically make a quick modification of any combat based on which party role is missing... I used March 2009 Dragon's "Party Building" article by Robert Schwalb as a guideline.
That's if you wanted to do the absent from the party when you don't show thing.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Yeah I've been in that boat as DM too!

Maybe you could open up whichever version of the Monster Builder you've got access to and write her PC up in monster format? That might feel more intuitive for you as DM with all the powers organized by action type.

I did this with the Bard NPC that was with the party for a while, and it helped. I should do it with her character, too.

Anyhow, I've found in my games that on those occasions when I do care about "fair and balanced encounter building", I can typically make a quick modification of any combat based on which party role is missing... I used March 2009 Dragon's "Party Building" article by Robert Schwalb as a guideline.
That's if you wanted to do the absent from the party when you don't show thing.

I'll look into the article, thanks

 

[JamesonCourage]

Due to health issues, the player of the Wizard will be stepping down from playing in our game, since she doesn't want us to never know if she'll be there. While we tried to convince her that it's fine, she doesn't want to inconvenience us, and I'm guessing she didn't like the stress of trying to make it and not being able to.

With that in mind, I will be swapping the PC out, and replacing her with another player or a new NPC that's with the party until we get it. I'm leaning towards an Elementalist (water), but I'm considering anything that would be fun for me to play (as that'll make even complex characters easier to play). So, also considering a Thief, too.

The party currently has a Dwarven Knight, a Mul Warpriest, and a Wilden Scout. They're missing the controller role, so I could go that route, or something that has a side of controller. Oh, the options...

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION]
Your group will adjust and stabilize Mine lost 4 players and then suddenly one of the players recruited 3 new players...actually, looking back at it there's been quite a bit of come and go! It works out in the end.

One class I loved watching in action was the Avenger. Basically they're Al-Qadim's holy slayers except they really do have the backing of a faith (and possibly a deity). In addition to atttactive mechanical features, it's a great roleplaying angle for an NPC companion...a constant tension should be there as in "we know this guy is fighting the good fight, but should we be worried about how far is he willing to go?"

Mechanically, you get oath of enmity which says "pick an enemy this encounter and get advantage (roll twice, take better) on all attacks against them." You also get a built in leader power Channel Divnity: Divine Guidance to grant an ally advantage on an attack. There are lots of fun powers with a secondary controller role, most of which are straightforward, though a few that are a bit complicated and you'll want to avoid.

What your current party needs, though, is a ranged striker like an Elementalist (as you suggested) or Hunter.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Your group will adjust and stabilize Mine lost 4 players and then suddenly one of the players recruited 3 new players...actually, looking back at it there's been quite a bit of come and go! It works out in the end.

Yeah, I have a feeling it'll be fine. In the meantime, I'll be adding a character I like to replace the Wizard. Hopefully that won't last long (and we get a new player)

One class I loved watching in action was the Avenger. Basically they're Al-Qadim's holy slayers except they really do have the backing of a faith (and possibly a deity). In addition to atttactive mechanical features, it's a great roleplaying angle for an NPC companion...a constant tension should be there as in "we know this guy is fighting the good fight, but should we be worried about how far is he willing to go?"

Mechanically, you get oath of enmity which says "pick an enemy this encounter and get advantage (roll twice, take better) on all attacks against them." You also get a built in leader power Channel Divnity: Divine Guidance to grant an ally advantage on an attack. There are lots of fun powers with a secondary controller role, most of which are straightforward, though a few that are a bit complicated and you'll want to avoid.

I'm pretty familiar with them, but I've always been a little hesitant that they hold up as a striker, as their damage buff mechanic doesn't seem as reliable as other strikers. And while they have lots of flavor, I'm not sure "fighting the good fight" fits with this party; they lean towards Good, but they are definitely not Good (all Unaligned). They got dangerously close to torturing a guy for information for their own interests last session (even if their interests were helping out strangers).

What your current party needs, though, is a ranged striker like an Elementalist (as you suggested) or Hunter.

Yeah, those were the main ones I was considering. I was also considering something like a Warlord (so that the NPC I bring in puts the focus on the party and not himself), but the problem with that is damage might be a little low. Though the Knight does pretty good damage for a Defender (1d10+8 now, plus Cleaving stance plus a free attack [and guaranteed 4 damage] if an enemy attacks anyone else or shifts while adjacent to him). And the Scout definitely brings some good damage, too.

Since the PC I'm replacing had a lot of utility outside of combat, I was also considering replacing her with someone else who had a lot of utility outside of combat as well. The Hunter has that, but a lot of it would overlap with the Scout. The Elementalist could grab Ritual Casting again, but so could anyone else that was trained in Arcana (or Religion, I suppose). So I was also considering the Thief for more damage / multiclassing to grab Ritual Casting (plus all those thief skills / utility powers).

As much as certain other classes look fun (for some reason I really want to add a Vampire; the flavor just strikes me as a fun thing to add to this party), they aren't the best options. I probably need something ranged. I considered a Vampire / Ranger hybrid, but it doesn't seem as optimal as, say, the Elementalist (water).

 

[Quickleaf]

Thief is a fun class. In my friend's short-lived 4e conversion of Keep on the Borderlands he had each of us make 2 characters so we had one on backup, my spare was Clavimir the Black Fox. The story was he was the black sheep of his mixed Thyatian-Traladaran family who leaned more to his mother's side (the native Traladaran) who had taught him some of the Old Ways.

Mechanically he was a thief with the Dead Rat Deserter theme (for the shapechanging at-will, I re-skinned as a black fox rather than a dire rat or whatever) & the Bardic Ritualistic feat & Martial Practice feat (or whatever it's called). I gave him the Linguist feat as well, but could have given him the psionic Wild Talent feat. Also had hedge magr gloves for cantrips. Tons of versatility, simple (once I made a custom sheet), and lots of fun

 

[Manbearcat]

[MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION] If you don't want to go the Elementalist route, here is an archer that doesn't overlap with the Scout's shtick and has minimal mental overhead. All you really need to do is make Power Attack apply only to ranged weapon attacks (rename it Deadeye or something).

1) Arcana, Heal, Religion Rituals.
2) Arcane Mutterings to trade Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate for Arcana (1/Enc)
3) Encounter heal.
4) Encounter speed or Athletics bonus (great for combat or Skill Challenges)
5) Encounter + 4 hit or saving throw.
6) Encounter + Int damage and + 4 defenses against target UEoNT.
5) All skills pass the Medium DC at a very high % except B, D, and I (and you have Arcane Mutterings for that).
6) Big ranged damage with just RBA, big survivability (HPs + defenses), solid initiative.
7) Skirmishing stance or damage stance.
8) Two 1st level Rituals to choose and 1 K gold to play with (for more rituals or whatever).

[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Human, Fighter (Slayer)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Recent Life - Demon-Hunter (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Scholar

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 12, DEX 15, INT 13, WIS 14, CHA 10


AC: 21 Fort: 20 Ref: 21 Will: 19
HP: 57 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Athletics +9, Endurance +9, Heal +10, Religion +10, Streetwise +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +7, History +7, Insight +9, Intimidate +5, Nature +7, Perception +7, Stealth +9, Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Scholar Utility: Use Vulnerability
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike
Fighter Utility: Mobile Blade
Fighter Utility: Battle Wrath
Heal Utility 2: Iron Resurgence
Arcana Utility 2: Arcane Mutterings
Athletics Utility 6: Mighty Sprint

FEATS
Level 1: Bow Expertise
Level 1: Learned Spellcaster
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 2: Skill Power
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Jack of All Trades

ITEMS
Magic Longbow +2 x1
Agile Scale Armor +1 x1
ESP Medallion +2 x1
====== End ======
[/sblock]

 

[JamesonCourage]

Thief is a fun class. In my friend's short-lived 4e conversion of Keep on the Borderlands he had each of us make 2 characters so we had one on backup, my spare was Clavimir the Black Fox. The story was he was the black sheep of his mixed Thyatian-Traladaran family who leaned more to his mother's side (the native Traladaran) who had taught him some of the Old Ways.

Mechanically he was a thief with the Dead Rat Deserter theme (for the shapechanging at-will, I re-skinned as a black fox rather than a dire rat or whatever) & the Bardic Ritualistic feat & Martial Practice feat (or whatever it's called). I gave him the Linguist feat as well, but could have given him the psionic Wild Talent feat. Also had hedge magr gloves for cantrips. Tons of versatility, simple (once I made a custom sheet), and lots of fun

Sounds like fun

 

[JamesonCourage]

@JamesonCourage If you don't want to go the Elementalist route, here is an archer that doesn't overlap with the Scout's shtick and has minimal mental overhead. All you really need to do is make Power Attack apply only to ranged weapon attacks (rename it Deadeye or something).

That's pretty interesting. Is there any way to change that stuff in the character builder? If not, I won't go that route; I'm already trying to house rule as little as possible.

As far as the Elementalist, I have a prospective build up, if you want to critique it:
[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======Zanne, level 6
Half-Elf, Sorcerer (Elementalist)
Elemental Specialty Option: Water Elementalist
Half-Elf Power Selection Option: Dilettante
Inherent Bonuses
Occupation - Scholar (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Primordial Adept

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 18, DEX 10, INT 13, WIS 8, CHA 20

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 10, INT 13, WIS 8, CHA 17


AC: 19 Fort: 18 Ref: 15 Will: 21
HP: 55 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 13

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +17, Endurance +12, History +9, Streetwise +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Athletics +3, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, Insight +4, Intimidate +8, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +4, Stealth +3, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Primordial Adept Attack: Solkara's Wave
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Ice Prison
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Water)
Bard Utility: Skald's Aura
Bard Feature: Majestic Word
Bard Attack 1: Bolstering Speech
Primordial Adept Utility 2: Solkara's Grasp
Primordial Adept Utility 6: Solkara's Forest

FEATS
Level 1: Master of Stories
Level 2: Silvery Glow
Level 4: Bardic Dilettante
Level 6: Staff Expertise

ITEMS
Magic Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Amulet of Seduction +1 x1
Adventurer's Kit
Demise's Accurate staff of Ruin x1
====== End ======[/sblock]
This NPC would be one of the "Wizards" that had initially studied the genasi Wizard that's traveling with the party. She has very effective at-will ranged attacks (attack at +11 vs Reflex: 1d12+17 cold and slide all adjacent creatures vs 1 target; or attack at +11 vs Fort: 1d8+17 cold plus slow vs all creatures in Area 1), as well as some emergency healing (Skald's Aura, Majestic Word).

Also, as far as I can tell, while Skald's Aura healing can only be used 1/day, the aura can be used 1/encounter. If so, if she uses her Dilettante power (Bolstering Speech), then every encounter she can hand out 5 THP with every basic attack (which her Elemental Bolt [+11, 1d12+17 + slide at-will] should count as). So, twice per day she can give some healing, and every encounter she can hand out 5 THP a few times while also utilizing some battlefield control (sliding creatures next to her target).

Between Escalating Elements (+1 target, 1d10 more damage), Solkara's Wave (+11 vs Fort: 1d8+17 cold, push 2, slow, and vulnerable cold 5 UEONT vs all creatures in Close Blast 3), Solkara's Grasp (Aura 2, all creatures slowed, vulnerable cold 5, and -2 attacks), and Solkara's Forest (Close burst 2 difficult terrain for everyone else, push/pull/slide 1 extra square in terrain, plus 3 icicles of blocking terrain that deal 5 cold damage), there's a lot of control potential there (as well as extra damage with the cold vulnerability).

Overall, it still looks like a relatively simple build, but I did make it a little more complex with the theme, though I did want some control options (as this would be replacing the controller). Thoughts? Does the Skald's Aura / Dilettante power (Bolstering Speech) combo work?