D&D General Jaquaying the dungeon - a term to avoid

[Bill Zebub]

...however...

If we're going to have a verb, I don't think there is a word already in the language that, converted to a verb, would do it justice, which means I think our best bet is to name it after somebody.

I would be 100 times more enthusiastic about Charlequinning than X.....ing.

 

[Clint_L]

And that's why the term 'Xandering' is probably going to remain. Because when people want to discuss that style of dungeon, those that know about the style and want to pass on info will mostly have to continue to use 'Jacquaying' as the term of meta info since that's how they learned about it and where most discussions are found... which when other people then look it up, they will see those articles have changed the term to 'Xandering'. And that's how new people will begin to acknowledge the term on a meta level when talking about the phenomenon.

If other people want to use another term because they don't like JA or don't like that his "ego" allowed him to rename the term after himself, that's fine. But those terms will not actually ever enter the lexicon because there's nothing to redirect people's curiosity to any discussion about the meta idea to those other terms. As a personal choice, it's fine... but as a full change of the meta commentary? An uphill battle.

Now we're getting into my main territory, language.

The verbing of nouns is foundational to English and generally happens when there is a need for a linguistic shortcut. It's why I can look out the window right now, notice that it's raining, and not feel a little hiccup in the parts of my brain that parse language. So, pedants be damned, it's a feature and not a flaw.

And that's why 'Xandering' is going nowhere, IMO. But then, 'Jacquaying' also went nowhere. I had never heard or read the term before, and I'm the kind of person who has thousands of posts on forums like this. For a word or new usage of a word to make it, there has to be a hole that needs filling, enough to create popular acceptance, and I don't see it here. Is either new term more economical than simply saying 'non-linear'? No. Do either tease out some sort of significant distinction that 'non-linear' lacks? Not that I can tell. Is either such an obvious allusion that it immediately ignites a spark of cultural recognition amongst the TTRPG community, so that now we know exactly what you mean? Afraid not.

As Snarf adroitly pointed out some pages ago, Justin Alexander is essentially trying to "make 'fetch' happen." Twice. That's not how language works unless you can get yourself a much bigger audience than Justin Alexander commands. Which is why what we have here is a tempest in a teapot (thanks, Cicero).

 

[Bill Zebub]

Justin Alexander is essentially trying to "make 'fetch' happen." Twice.

Which is why I think it would be hilariously funny if the community could hijack "Xandering" a dungeon to mean "Clearing a dungeon of its inhabitants, claiming it as your own, and renaming it after yourself."

 

[Bill Zebub]

Oh, and by the way, "Zebubbing" a word henceforeth means to penalize a person's attempt to name something after themself by causing the word to have a different, less desireable meaning.

 

[Mannahnin]

And that's why 'Xandering' is going nowhere, IMO. But then, 'Jacquaying' also went nowhere. I had never heard or read the term before, and I'm the kind of person who has thousands of posts on forums like this. For a word or new usage of a word to make it, there has to be a hole that needs filling, enough to create popular acceptance, and I don't see it here. Is either new term more economical than simply saying 'non-linear'? No. Do either tease out some sort of significant distinction that 'non-linear' lacks? Not that I can tell. Is either such an obvious allusion that it immediately ignites a spark of cultural recognition amongst the TTRPG community, so that now we know exactly what you mean? Afraid not.

I've seen it get fairly regular usage in OSR circles over the past decade.

 

[GuyBoy]

I will be quietly Jennelling any dungeons I design, in silent tribute to the inspiration I gained from reading Jennell Jacquays’ work in the late 1970s/early 80s.

 

[Clint_L]

I've seen it get fairly regular usage in OSR circles over the past decade.

Well, those five guys are welcome to it.

Shots fired!

 

[Bill Zebub]

I've seen it get fairly regular usage in OSR circles over the past decade.

I'd be genuinely curious to see an example of somebody having used it organically. "I was J---- this dungeon the other day, and I added a secret passage..."

As opposed to just sharing/discussing what the word is supposed to mean and why.

 

[DEFCON 1]

No we're getting into my main territory, language.

The verbing of nouns is foundational to English and generally happens when there is a need for a linguistic shortcut. It's why I can look out the window right now, notice that it's raining, and not feel a little hiccup in the parts of my brain that parse language. So, pedants be damned, it's a feature and not a flaw.

And that's why 'Xandering' is going nowhere, IMO. But then, 'Jacquaying' also went nowhere. I had never heard or read the term before, and I'm the kind of person who has thousands of posts on forums like this. For a word or new usage of a word to make it, there has to be a hole that needs filling, enough to create popular acceptance, and I don't see it here. Is either new term more economical than simply saying 'non-linear'? No. Do either tease out some sort of significant distinction that 'non-linear' lacks? Not that I can tell. Is either such an obvious allusion that it immediately ignites a spark of cultural recognition amongst the TTRPG community, so that now we know exactly what you mean? Afraid not.

As Snarf adroitly pointed out some pages ago, Justin Alexander is essentially trying to "make 'fetch' happen." Twice. That's not how language works unless you can get yourself a much bigger audience than Justin Alexander commands. Which is why what we have here is a tempest in a teapot (thanks, Cicero).

You really think 'non-linear' is going to take its place? Good luck with that.

Heck... a google search right now under 'non-linear dungeon' has 'Xandering the Dungeon' as it's fifth entry. Guess what? "Fetch" already HAS happened. You are all too late.

The language logic or lack thereof does not matter. What matters is usage. And while YOU might never have heard about that term, that's probably just because you never had a conversation about that particular way of designing dungeons. Because if you had had a conversation about that sort of thing-- like here on EN World-- you would have been pointed by at least one person to The Alexandrian's 'Jacquaying The Dungeon' series of articles, since that's the main place this sort of dungeon style was actually talked about, discussed, defined, and had examples of for the last like 13 years (since his first article where he coined the term happened in July of 2010!) And now, when people talk about it, they are going to be directed to the same series of articles where they will merely see the term changed, but the information about the dungeon design style that everyone was perfectly fine with is exactly the same.

As I've said... if people want a new term to stick, you all better start writing a whole bunch of articles about that style of dungeon so that you have a location people can be directed to that has that term. Because random people just using whatever word they want will not accomplish anything other than that specific person being happier with their word usage.

 

[Clint_L]

You really think 'non-linear' is going to take its place? Good luck with that.

Heck... a google search right now under 'non-linear dungeon' has 'Xandering the Dungeon' as it's fifth entry. Guess what? "Fetch" already HAS happened. You are all too late.

Uh, no. It hasn't. Which is why you had to Google "non-linear dungeon." But you go ahead and use the term "xandering" and then we'll all wait while you explain that it means to make the dungeon non-linear, so we can all move ahead together. Because as it turns out, English already handles that situation fine.

For me, any time I hear the term "xandering," I will continue to assume that I am in a conversation about Buffy the Vampire Slayer.