Job Titles for a Medieval Official?

[Celebrim]

This sounded interesting, so I poked my GM (Justin Alexander) who also dabbled in medieval history and Shakespearean studies. He confirmed that the historically accurate term you're looking for is "harbormaster"...

You do realize that neither harbor nor master is a medieval word, right?

You do realize that your phrasing is designed to start an argument, right? (Yep. sounds snotty when I say it, too.) There are more polite ways to disagree with someone. Use them next time, please. PM me if this is at all unclear. ~ PCat

Portshrieve

Shrieve is an archaic term for "sherriff", meaning one who oversees a shire.

Shrieve (s.p.) is a contraction of 'Shire Reeve'. It would never be in that form, as even the modern word doesn't begin with the sound "Shr" but "Sher". One reason it would never contract that way is that the word Shrive, while almost unheared today, would have been very current then. In fact, one real medieval job was Shriver - a priest that heard confessions. Likewise, scrivener was a real medieval job, so you'd never contract 'Shire Reeve' down to something that would only add more confusion.

A reeve is a magistrate responsible for serving warrants, and the position is roughly analogous to a police officer today. In formal documents, they are often referred to as Prefects after the Roman practice. The 'Shire Reeve' held a position very similar to a Sheriff in the US, being appointed over a whole district.

It's worth nothing that there were 'Town-Reeves' and also 'Port-Reeves', so the idea here has some accuracy even if the word you made up doesn't. Portshrieve would be a 'Port-Shire-Reeve', which is basically nonsense. 'Port-Reeves' is correct, and would presumably refer to an official underneath a Portitor (his Prefect) who was actually responcible for clapping you in irons when you failed to pay the duties.

Portenta

Did you know that the word "portent" is etymologically derived from "port" because the earliest portents were the portentum which the priestesses of the sea goddess read in the waxing and waning of the tides and the stormy weathers of the sea?

No, that's completely not true. But it could be. And in this world the harbor is run by a Portenta because the position derives from that ancient priesthood.

No, but the modern word 'Harbinger' actually does come from the word 'Harbor', and means in the midieval period a person who went ahead of the party to secure lodgings for the night. In modern English, it means a portent or ill-omen.

Portent, incidently, is also not a medieval word. It's first attested to in English in 1560. It comes from Latin by way of French, so I'll leave it to the Latin students to tell us where it comes from.

 

[Beginning of the End]

You do realize that neither harbor nor master is a medieval word, right?

You do realize you have no idea what you're talking about, right?

If someone is rude, please don't be rude back. That starts a downhill tumble that usually dooms the thread. We'd rather avoid it. ~ PCat

OED cites 1205 as earliest use of the word "harbour" in the sense of "place to shelter ships". It was used by Chaucer.

"Master" goes back to Old English (back to at least 1000 AD), and the OED cites the modern word around 1250 AD, as well.

For an online resource telling you the same thing, check Online Etymology Dictionary

Shrieve (s.p.) is a contraction of 'Shire Reeve'. It would never be in that form, as even the modern word doesn't begin with the sound "Shr"

Shrieve was, in fact, pronounced ʃriːv -- a single syllable.

I can find no source to support your contention that "shrieve" would have been pronounced in two syllables as ʃɛrɪv.

If countless online dictionaries and their pronunciation guides can't convince you, consider this: Shakespeare uses the word and consistently scans it as a single syllable.

 

[Celebrim]

For an online resource telling you the same thing, check Online Etymology Dictionary

Oh, you can google. I guess that makes you the expert then.

OED cites 1205 as earliest use of the word "harbour" in the sense of "place to shelter ships". It was used by Chaucer.

So, you are citing a poet as proof that by the 13th century people understood 'place of refuge' to also mean 'place to shelter ships'? Great. That doesn't change my assertion that its meaning is not primarily nautical in the period, and that doesn't change the fact that that meaning is novel in the 13th century, and that previously even according to the link you are sending me too it primarily meant generally "refuge, lodgings".

Quote: "Sense shifted in M.E. to "refuge, lodgings," then to "place of shelter for ships.""

"Master" goes back to Old English (back to at least 1000 AD), and the OED cites the modern word around 1250 AD, as well.

Master in Old English would have been mægester, from the Latin. If the more modern word 'master' comes along by 1250, I'm not that surprised, but that does nothing to assert that 'Harbor Master' is current by 1250 which is your principle assertion.

I did learn something new though. I googled shrieve and it is actually a word and a variant of Sheriff, which I didn't know (and you apparantly did). But when I google it, it is listed as a noun as a contraction of the OE shereve (note the 'sher-' you find impossible to find), and listed also as verb as an alternate spelling of 'Shrive'.

Thank you for helping me find an interesting etymological connection then. I assumed that you'd not contract 'Shire Reeve' to something that looked and sounded alot like 'Shrive', but apparantly people back then found an interesting mental connection between a 'Shire Reeve' and a 'to ask questions'.

Nonetheless, the older word is 'shereve' and the modern word 'sheriff'. I stand by my conclusion that the otherwise interesting portmanteau is not on the word's main life cycle, and until I see otherwise that 'harbormaster' is anchronistic and likewise that 'port-reeve' is attested to but 'portshrieve' is nonsense akin to saying something like 'Federal Texas Ranger' or 'County Federal Marshall'.

 

[Beginning of the End]

So, you are citing a poet as proof that by the 13th century people understood 'place of refuge' to also mean 'place to shelter ships'?

If you honestly don't know what the OED is, I'm not going to waste my time defending my friend from your fact-free etymological attacks. And if you're seriously looking to fight with the Oxford English Dictionary's etymological claims using me as a proxy, I will similarly have to disappoint you.

But when I google it, it is listed as a noun as a contraction of the OE shereve (note the 'sher-' you find impossible to find),

Note that you're talking about a different word in what is, practically speaking, a different language.

But you're right to imply that it would have been a foolish thing to argue that no word in the history of English or its precedent tongues has ever used the syllable "sher-". Thankfully, no one has done so here.

and until I see otherwise that 'harbormaster' is anchronistic

"Master of the Harbour" would probably be the more typical usage, but harbormaster is attested.

and likewise that 'port-reeve' is attested

Portreeve probably wouldn't be a bad option for the original poster, either. But it's anachronistic, and the most common usage appears to have been "portgreve" or "portgrave". And although some may find it preferable to a completely made up term, it didn't actually mean "harbormaster".

From the OED again:

2. Erroneously referred (by later compilers) to port n.1 2, as if the reeve of a sea-port town.
1607 Cowell Interpr., Portgreue+signifieth with vs the chiefe magistrate in certaine coast townes. 1616 Bullokar Eng. Expos., Portgreue, a chiefe officer in certaine Port tounes. 1622 Callis Stat. Sewers (1647) 34 That Officer called Portgreve, which signifieth the Governor of the Port. 1727–41 Chambers Cycl., Portgreve, or Portgrave, was anciently the principal magistrate in ports and other maritime towns. 1851 Dixon W. Penn i. (1872) 6 When the country wanted fleets,+she had only to send for the port~reeves and masters of companies.

You can push the specific reference to an "Office of Portreveship" in the Rolls of Parliament back a little further than that. But it's still not medieval.

 

[Celebrim]

If you honestly don't know what the OED is...

Oh good grief.

I'm merely pointing out that exactly as the link you asked me to follow said, the term was primarily understood to mean in both OE and ME to be 'refuge' and that it having primarily a nautical sense is a late development. If Chaucer uses the general word 'refuge' to mean 'port', then both I and the OED can agree, "Here's an instance of a word meaning generally 'a place of refuge' to mean specifically 'a refuge for ships.", without either the OED or myself claiming that isn't more commonly understood in the medieval period to mean 'a place of refuge' generally. This is in fact exactly what the entry in your online dictionary you linked to noted. References to me not knowing what the OED is are just red herrings.

Note that you're talking about a different word in what is, practically speaking, a different language.

Sure, but that 'different language' we are talking about here has some currency in the conversation unless you are going to say that 1066 wasn't in the middle ages.

But you're right to imply that it would have been a foolish thing to argue that no word in the history of English or its precedent tongues has ever used the syllable "sher-". Thankfully, no one has done so here.

No, but you did seem to imply that the 'sher-' in sheriff was modern. And as for the ancientness of 'Port-Reeve' you are the one that brought up the whole idea with your 'Portshrieve'. It's not like I proposed it. I don't have to defend it's antiquity. If 'port-reeve' is no more correct than 'portshrieve', then oh well.

And I'll gladly apologize if you can come up with that ancient citation of 'harbor master' or 'harbour maister' or anything of the sort. OED should be useful there, because they probably have the first usage of 'harbour master' as well.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I like Portshrieve. Imho, sounding medieval is much more important than actually being medieval.

These are the sorts of tricks writers play. How a word sounds, to an ignorant modern ear, is of the greatest importance. Like the swearing in Deadwood.

 

[gamerprinter]

Back when I was playing in Harn, the title of that job was Bondmaster, who operated a Bonding House which takes imported goods for storage until passed and properly taxed.

So Bondmaster is what you're looking for.

GP

 

[jonesy]

Oh good grief.

I'm merely pointing out that exactly as the link you asked me to follow said, the term was primarily understood to mean in both OE and ME to be 'refuge' and that it having primarily a nautical sense is a late development. If Chaucer uses the general word 'refuge' to mean 'port', then both I and the OED can agree, "Here's an instance of a word meaning generally 'a place of refuge' to mean specifically 'a refuge for ships.", without either the OED or myself claiming that isn't more commonly understood in the medieval period to mean 'a place of refuge' generally.

What?

A harbour is precisely a refuge. Before there were harbours ships had no shelter from the sea. You had to drag them ashore for safety. Building a harbour is automatically the same as building a refuge for ships. That's what it means.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Oh good grief.

OED cites 1205 as earliest use of the word "harbour"...

Ok lads, that's dictionaries at twenty paces for both of you. Now don't make me go home from work and get out my *Compact Oxford replete with magnifying glass otherwise you're both going to be very sad pandas!

For what it's worth, I think Celebrim is making a valid point.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

*Please note compact here not concise. Compact in size, not in content for the uninitiated.

 

[Piratecat]

Note my warnings above. No need to bicker, please!