John Cooper reviews MMIII, and finds loads of mistakes

[UniversalMonster]

You don't think a creature's AC being off by 10 wouldn't affect gameplay? I mean, I agree in general, but I think you didn't look at some of those errors.

In the salt mummy (CR:8 creature) the AC is given correctly as 18. It's in the justification line where the typo occurs:

"(Dex -1, Natural Armor +19)" should read "(Dex -1, Natural Armor +9)".

It's a mistake, but the AC still reads 18. And thats the part you would use. Yes, the typo is annoying. And yes, 28 is obviously just too high of an AC for a CR 8 critter.

 

[Garnfellow]

In the salt mummy (CR:8 creature) the AC is given correctly as 18. It's in the justification line where the typo occurs:

"(Dex -1, Natural Armor +19)" should read "(Dex -1, Natural Armor +9)".

It's a mistake, but the AC still reads 18. And thats the part you would use. Yes, the typo is annoying. And yes, 28 is obviously just too high of an AC for a CR 8 critter.

Actually, I'm not so sure about that. I don't have my 3.0 DMG in front of me, but assume a typical 8th-level fighter with the elite ability score array. She starts with a 15 Str, to which she adds both ability score increases. A typical 8th-level fighter would have 27,000 gp worth of equipment, so a +3 sword (18,335 gp) would not be out of the question. Add in Weapon Focus, and this typical 8th level fighter (+8 BAB) would have a +15 Attack bonus, and so need to roll a 13 or higher to hit AC 28, hitting 40% of the time. So AC 28 on a CR 8 creature is tough, but not insane.

That's why this typo is troublesome -- AC 18 is pretty weak (90% hit chance) for a CR 8 opponent, and AC 28 is kind of tough.

 

[Vanye]

My biggest problems with errors in stat blocks...

is that there are HOW MANY spread sheets otu there where you can slap in a stat and have it all auto add? Even if you have to manually correct for feats, etc, there are still many ways out there to catch those kinds of errors...

 

[seankreynolds]

A lot of this threads shows what is wrong with the RPG Industry. We get books that have errors in them, lousy playtesting, and little too no proofreading; yet the people buy them and smile and most don't even notice or care that they have errors. If we aren't going to start holding companies to higher standard then this is what we will always get.

Hmm, funny, I remember saying something very similar to that....



(I'm saddened by these errors in the book, especially as WotC has an in-house spreadsheet that generates stat blocks, and should do them accurately. Maybe some aren't using it, I don't know.)

 

[Shade]

IMHO, Draconomicon was a 5/5.

I'd add Frostburn to that list.

IMHO, MMIII pales greatly when compared to the Fiend Folio, which is by far the best 3.X WOTC book, both in quality of creatures and quality of editing.

The Fiend Folio gave us:
-Swarms
-Grafts
-Symbionts
-Ethergaunts, Kaorti, Nerra, and Shadar-Kai

Can anyone honestly say that the MMIII has added more to the game?

Also, both the FF and MM2 beats the MM3 in quantity (My count may be off by a few here or there, I'll admit):

FF:
167 monsters
8 templates
3 prestige classes

MM2:
172 monsters
12 templates

MM3:
144 monsters
5 templates
0 prestige classes

Also, of this amount, the MM3 has the most "greater" and "lesser" versions of the same creature, making the number of original creatures far less.

 

[philreed]

Also, both the FF and MM2 beats the MM3 in quantity (My count may be off by a few here or there, I'll admit):

This is true but . . . you knew there was gonna be a but.

The layout of MMIII is far superior to the others. Each monster starting at the top of a page makes the book a lot easier to use (at least, for me).

 

[Voadam]

Not that i expect you to answer this publicly, but have you ever been the source of an illegally-shared RPG PDF? You just don't strike me as the type. Or do you suspect some sour grapes over previous reviews? I may not always agree with your conclusions, because our tastes differ, but your reviews are always fair and informative, and thus useful to me.

I believe they would send out DRM copies because that is now what they sell on drivethrurpg. I don't believe it would be because they don't trust reviewers.

 

[Darrin Drader]

The biggest mistake WotC ever made was giving the source code for 3rd edition rules to its fans (and no I'm not referring to the OGL).

 

[Old Fezziwig]

I'll bite -- what are you referring to, Whisperfoot? I'm curious, because it sounds like an interesting point.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I'll bite -- what are you referring to, Whisperfoot? I'm curious, because it sounds like an interesting point.

In first and second edition nobody complained about the mistakes because nobody knew how to deconstruct the stats. In fact, its safe to say that there was no way to deconstruct stats because the various values were set by the designers and then playtested to ensure that the monster worked the way it was intended. In 3rd edition there is a greater emphasis on adhering to defined mathematical formulas. I think its good that these formulas exist because they make it easier to design a monster so that you can accurately predict the level of challenge it will be against a party, but by allowing your fans to deconstruct the stats, you open the door to the math check review where the reviewer isn't required to actually put the monster up against a party to see how it performs, but instead, the reviewer can just go through all of the entries to see if they were done correctly. In the process, the critique goes from whether or not these are interesting monster ideas or whether they will make for cool encounters to something more along the lines of how many mistakes the designers and/or editors made. While I agree with Sean's point above, and I do feel that designers should strive to turn in work that is as accurate as possible, I don't feel that many of the mistakes pointed out in this review will actually result in a noticeable difference in gameplay.

So, to summarize, in my own humble opinion, WotC put out a good book that would probably be getting a lot more respect right now from its fans if they had never publicly provided the information on the "correct" way to build a monster.