Judge this feat: Rolling whirlwind attack

[Farland]

I was thinking of feats for high level fighters, and I thought of this. Here's where you come in. Is the feat balanced? Does it replicate a feat or ability that I am not aware of?

Rolling Whirlwind Attack [General]
You can strike nearby opponents in an amazing spinning tumble attack.

Prerequisites: Whirlwind attack, tumble skill.
Benefit: If you make a tumble check DC 20, you can move by tumbling up to 20 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. If the check is a DC 25, you may pass through occupied squares. While tumbling you can attack every opponent that you pass within five feat (one attack per opponent up to a maximum of eight attacks for the action) at full base attack bonus. If you fail your tumble check you may still tumble, but you provoke attacks of opportunity and cannot make any attacks with the rolling whirlwind attack action. Rolling Whirlwind attack is a full round action.

 

[kreynolds]

Cool looking feat! I think you need to raise the prerequisites though, say by adding a base attack bonus requirement (15 and up maybe?), or something.

By the way, house rules are better off being posted here. You'll probably get more feedback there.

 

[3d6]

I agree that a base attack bonus prerequisite is probably a good idea, as well as a prerequisite number of ranks in Tumble. A base attack bonus of 15 seems a bit high, however.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Dodge, Expertise, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Tumble 11 ranks, base attack bonus +7.

 

[Darklone]

8 attacks at lvl7 at full attack bonus???? That's utterly crazy. I'd even recommend BAB +16 as requirement. A fighter of that level would still be able to double his normal attacks who would still hit better!!!

 

[hong]

By the way, house rules are better off being posted here. You'll probably get more feedback there.

Bah. I'm having to pimp my stuff here to get any feedback at all!

So, um, will someone please comment on the following feats? I promise to be REEEEALLY nice and polite and stuff and not WANGER anybody or anything. Really. No, really.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55249

 

[Darklone]

Bah. I'm having to pimp my stuff here to get any feedback at all!

Poor hong. *comfort*

So, um, will someone please comment on the following feats? I promise to be REEEEALLY nice and polite and stuff and not WANGER anybody or anything. Really. No, really.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55249

Improved Dodge sounds nice but if it's not too much trouble, I'd change it to +2 vs one opponent OR +1 against many.

Arrow Defense is ... you better define it how it works in conjunction with tumble. Do you know the Spell Dodge feat from the KoK PG? I guess it would be easier to give a flat stacking bonus for this feat too.

Rapid Strike is essentially Rapid Shot for melee... IMHO this is utterly broken and crazy and would make twohanded melee twinks too strong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but run some numbers of a guy with greatsword and Rapid Strike and a guy with longsword&shortsword.

Imp. RS. This breaks the eternal rule in D&D 3E about not more than one attack with Standard actions (just as Cleave does). Hmm. I already see charging barbarians bashing twice with Power Attack and Rage at someone, then cleaving into the next... Too strong for my taste too.

Are you happy now, hong ?

 

[Bauglir]

Why not make the number of targets you can hit scale with level?

1/2 levels sounds about right to me.

Re: Hong's feats I pretty much feel the same way as Darklone.

You could make a nice variant of Imp RS for the TWFers to attack with both weapons as a standard action.

 

[hong]

Improved Dodge sounds nice but if it's not too much trouble, I'd change it to +2 vs one opponent OR +1 against many.

Well, I made it because 1) Dodge is wimpy; 2) tracking who you're dodging is a bit of a hassle. I guess you could make it +1 vs everyone, but spending two feats for a +1 dodge bonus to AC is still pretty weak.

Arrow Defense is ... you better define it how it works in conjunction with tumble. Do you know the Spell Dodge feat from the KoK PG? I guess it would be easier to give a flat stacking bonus for this feat too.

Um, what does Tumble have to do with it?

Rapid Strike is essentially Rapid Shot for melee... IMHO this is utterly broken and crazy and would make twohanded melee twinks too strong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but run some numbers of a guy with greatsword and Rapid Strike and a guy with longsword&shortsword.

Indeed, at first I was going to make it not stack with TWF (or monk flurry). But this is the version straight out of M&M, so I thought I'd put it through the wringer first. Note that stacking TWF with Rapid Strike would mean all attacks are at -4.

Imp. RS. This breaks the eternal rule in D&D 3E about not more than one attack with Standard actions (just as Cleave does). Hmm. I already see charging barbarians bashing twice with Power Attack and Rage at someone, then cleaving into the next... Too strong for my taste too.

It's just Manyshot for melee, but with stiffer prereqs, and without the option to add on more attacks. Hey, if Manyshot is okay, I reckon this one should be too.

 

[Darklone]

Well, I made it because 1) Dodge is wimpy; 2) tracking who you're dodging is a bit of a hassle. I guess you could make it +1 vs everyone, but spending two feats for a +1 dodge bonus to AC is still pretty weak.

That's why I said it might be too complicated... I liked that version with Dodge +1 to AC and Imp Dodge +2 to AC better.

Um, what does Tumble have to do with it?

If someone is fighting defensively or in full defense, the AC bonus changes depending on his tumble skill.

Indeed, at first I was going to make it not stack with TWF (or monk flurry). But this is the version straight out of M&M, so I thought I'd put it through the wringer first. Note that stacking TWF with Rapid Strike would mean all attacks are at -4.

TWF is not really the problem, but the one advantage of TWF (one more puny attack with less damage) against a twohandedtwink will be gone.

It's just Manyshot for melee, but with stiffer prereqs, and without the option to add on more attacks. Hey, if Manyshot is okay, I reckon this one should be too.

I'd say no... Rapid Shot is kinda balanced because you are not supposed to have 1.5 your strength bonus on each attack... with this thing you'd have it. If you want an additional attack, make some Ubercleave feat that gives you a Cleave attack even if the enemy does not fall.

 

[hong]

That's why I said it might be too complicated... I liked that version with Dodge +1 to AC and Imp Dodge +2 to AC better.

Do you mean Imp Dodge should give +2 vs one target? Like I said, I don't like how Dodge requires you to choose a target. I always forget who I'm dodging, or I forget that someone's dodging me. The whole point was to get rid of that wart.

If someone is fighting defensively or in full defense, the AC bonus changes depending on his tumble skill.

And this feat would stack with whatever AC bonus you get. It's pretty straightforward.

TWF is not really the problem, but the one advantage of TWF (one more puny attack with less damage) against a twohandedtwink will be gone.

Call me twisted, but I don't really care for TWF that much. I think it's a delayed reaction to all the TWF twinks from 2E. And anyway, the TWF people have goodies like Improved and Greater TWF to look forward to, so they should be fine.

I'd say no... Rapid Shot is kinda balanced because you are not supposed to have 1.5 your strength bonus on each attack...

The comparison was with Manyshot, not Rapid Shot. And you get 1.5 times your Str bonus with a full attack too, and noone complains about it. All this feat does, is let you get a bit more oomph out of a standard action. One of the things about high-level combat is how you get a lot more out of a full attack than a standard action, which does strange things to tactics; this feat is an attempt to fix that.

As a point of comparison, look at the iaijutsu master's One Strike, Two Cuts ability. It basically lets you do the same thing (two attacks at a penalty), and in fact something similar is already on my web page somewhere.

with this thing you'd have it. If you want an additional attack, make some Ubercleave feat that gives you a Cleave attack even if the enemy does not fall.

That would impact on full attacks as well, which would make it even better than this feat.