Judgement For The Damned--Paladins, Vampires; What Price For Victory?

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Ok, the players were exploring some ancient elven ruins while traveling in an enchanted forest. The party encountered an evil band of marauders, led by the vampire Archerrus. The players captured a Tiefling cohort of Archerrus and pursued the vampire lord and his minions deep underground, where Archerrus was cornered on a balcony overlooking a subterranean lake. Archerrus had a young human cleric, Julia, held tight in his grasp. The vampire demanded that the players allow him to escape, and free his Tiefling or Julia would die. Berenar, a paladin of the group, said--

"Never, hellspawn! Death and fire shall be your portion and you shall be damned for all eternity for your blasphemies!"

Archerrus stretched forth his hand, and Julia's heart was ripped from her chest with an agonizing scream!

Berenar charged the vampire, as the rest of the party pumped eight holy arrows into Archerrus, and three lightning bolts and a fireball crashed upon the vampire in swift wrath.

Berenar struck Archerrus with five mighty blows, causing Archerrus to writhe in agony, before he turned into gaseous form and fleeing to his sarcophogus.

Berenar gazed at Julia's bloody, limp body, before his eyes fell upon the Tiefling, Allanna. Berenar drew his sword and calmly walked over to Allanna, and simply stated "Your blasphemies bring a terrible reward!" before plunging his sword into her chest, and killing her.

The players are now searching desperately for Archerrus's secret lair, in an effort to destroy him forever.

Do you think that Berenar made the right decision? What do you think that the party should have done?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Crothian]

I thinki they did, they didn't seem to have any reason to belive the vampire would actually let the girl go if they agreed to let him go. They might not have gotten a second chance to destroy him begfore he killed many more people.

 

[mmadsen]

The vampire demanded that the players allow him to escape, and free his Tiefling or Julia would die. Berenar, a paladin of the group, said--

"Never, hellspawn! Death and fire shall be your portion and you shall be damned for all eternity for your blasphemies!"

While Berenar's heart may have been in the right (righteously angered) spot, that was a questionable tactical decision. Why announce your unwillingness to trade and force the vampire's hand?

The vampire's goals:

• Get away
• Kill Julia
• Get Tiefling away
• Kill Berenar, et al.

Berenar's goals:

• Save Julia
• Catch/Kill Archerrus
• Catch/Kill Tiefling
• Survive

Ideally, I think Berenar and company would have opened up with anti-Undead magic before Archerrus could kill Julia. Then he'd have something to make him question the safety of sticking around to finish the job.

 

[Timely Drought]

Sounds more like swift vigilante chaotic judgement rather than a paladin's supposed lawful seek fair justice and redeem if possible vibe. Of course nobody ever agrees on what alignments mean anyway.

But still the paladin should have tried bargaining for the girl's life. That he didn't seems to me like a serious breach of protecting the innocent. Of course the girl can be easily rezzed but it was still rather unheroic of him.

 

[Tonguez]

IMHO the Paladins first priority should have been Julia's safety and all means should have been taken to secure her safety before attacking

So now the Paladin should be wracked with guilt which may drive him into a spiral of depression and insanity which eventually causes him to do something to violate his vow. Whether the gods should also punish him, well thats another story and would require more information re the relationship between Paladin and Julia, the nature of the Vampires evil and how confident the PCs were in defeating its evil reign

 

[Endur]

At the end of True Grit, John Wayne's character has to make a similar choice.

He agrees to the bad guys demands, then the good guys split up, with one good guy ensuring that the good girl is rescued while John Wayne doubles-back and faces down all the bad guys by himself.

Of course, for John Wayne's character, agreeing to the bad guy's demands only delayed justice by a few minutes.

For Berenar, the situation might have been much worse. It might have become justice denied if he agreed to the vampire's terms.

An additional question is whether Berenar even had the opportunity to choose alternatives. His holy order might have stated that negotiations with undead are never possible (i.e. no negotiations with terrorists).

 

[babomb]

It may not have been the best idea, but I don't think he deserves more than a slap on the wrist, if anything. I think saving the girl should have been a higher priority than killing him immediately, but the paladin can't be punished too harshly for (justifiable) rightous fury, I suppose. Especially since, as has been pointed out, he has no guarantee that the vampire will let her go. Still, he ought to have her raised, if this is possible in your world.

It would, perhaps, have been better to try a counter-offer: "Let the girl go, and I'll give you a five-minute headstart. Don't, and I'll kill you where you stand. You have five seconds to decide."

Also, it may have been wiser to question the tiefling about the location of the vampire's lair before killing her (not that this violates the paladin's code). If the party has a cleric, Speak With Dead makes the point moot.

 

[Cheiromancer]

You can't penalize a paladin because he didn't submit to the threats of a chaotic evil undead. The paladin may regret Julia's death, but he need not suffer remorse.

It's a judgment call on the part of the paladin's player whether to bargain with evil creatures; saving someone's life might be worth delaying justice a little. But letting Arrcherus escape? Not too likely. A paladin's call is to face evil with a blade in hand, not to negotiate deals so that nobody ever ends up hurt.

 

[Starglim]

Right decision? Who's to say? The paladin's code is in tatters, though.

By your description I would say that he killed a helpless prisoner out of frustration, committed a chaotic evil act and should no longer be a paladin. He may be on the path to an alignment shift to LN or N. If he was going to judge the tiefling for blasphemy (you haven't mentioned what the tiefling did to justify this) he should have done it when the party captured her. In the situation it was just a transparent excuse to commit an act pretty much the same as the vampire had just done.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Right decision? Who's to say? The paladin's code is in tatters, though.

By your description I would say that he killed a helpless prisoner out of frustration, committed a chaotic evil act and should no longer be a paladin. He may be on the path to an alignment shift to LN or N. If he was going to judge the tiefling for blasphemy (you haven't mentioned what the tiefling did to justify this) he should have done it when the party captured her. In the situation it was just a transparent excuse to commit an act pretty much the same as the vampire had just done.

I agree and disagree with parts of this. As for leaving his code in tatters, a harsh call. Did he act with honour? Questionable at the least.

However, in terms of alignment shift, a rush of blood to the head does not an evil or neutral character make. It may require atonement if it was judged a dishonourable act by his deity and order, but it does not seem to me to be an act of a Paladin burgeoning upon blackguard status.

My question: why did the Paladin wish to administer "justice" to the servant directly at that point? Why had it not been done before if such was the judgment made? Was the servant beyond redemption? As presented, it does seem a self serving act.

In terms of Julia however, the Paladin seems not to have acted dishonourably, he just failed. And plenty of Paldins have failed.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise