jump vs expeditious retreat?

[Lela]

At 1st level it isn't even much of a choice! Since Exp retreat lets you jump further AND run faster too

Regards

Yes, but as mentioned several times, you can't cast Exp Retreat on other people. In fact, that's the reason I didn't take the spell when I leveled on Saturday. I had wanted to cast it on our half-orc in full plate (he hits hard but takes forever to get up close).

Yes, it's better than Jump, but only if your spellcaster is the one doing the jumping.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Nobody in our games has ever cast Jump on someone else (but then again they've never cast Jump full stop!). The problem is that by the time it gives +20 bonus the wizard can cast fly, and by the time it gives +30 he can cast overland flight; there are so many better mobility options that become available at high level unfortunately.

With them as they are in 3.5e I think the point about putting it in a potion is possibly the best argument in favour of jump.

I wonder what seemed too powerful about the spell that they decided to restrict it in 3.5e though? Haste it isn't!

Cheers

 

[ARandomGod]

Nobody in our games has ever cast Jump on someone else (but then again they've never cast Jump full stop!). The problem is that by the time it gives +20 bonus the wizard can cast fly, and by the time it gives +30 he can cast overland flight; there are so many better mobility options that become available at high level unfortunately.

With them as they are in 3.5e I think the point about putting it in a potion is possibly the best argument in favour of jump.

I wonder what seemed too powerful about the spell that they decided to restrict it in 3.5e though? Haste it isn't!

Cheers

You know, I noticed this too, right away. It's less than exp retreat at first, and by the time it's more, there are other, better options.

Of course, the other, better options aren't first level spells.

Personally, what I imagined happening is this
1) Someone thought jump was too WEAK. And asked that it be given scaling over levels.
2) Another person saw the suggestion, and pushed it, but with a hidden, spiteful agenda.
3) It was debated. Politics ensued, and the overall spell was given scaling
"Hey, that's what YOU suggested" (Evil glint)
and kept it's original power.

 

[BelXiror]

The jump spell bonus can be used with standing jumps. To get the bonus from expeditious retreat only applies when you have a 20ft run-up.

 

[ARandomGod]

The jump spell bonus can be used with standing jumps. To get the bonus from expeditious retreat only applies when you have a 20ft run-up.

A good point. Not true, mind you, but a good point.

A quick quote from the SRD:

"Check: The DC and the distance you can cover vary according to the type of jump you are attempting (see below).
Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a –6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.
All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start, which requires that you move at least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump. If you do not get a running start, the DC for the jump is doubled."

All the jump spell does is add to your jump skill for the purpose of jumping, it doesn't change the skill description, thus if you wanted to jump from a standing start, it would still double the jump DC, and if you had expeditiously retreated yourself into a higher speed bracket, you would jump further with a standing jump.

 

[BelXiror]

Oops... Thats a pretty major change to jump since 3.0.

Still thought movement based jump bonuses required you to, y'know, move for some reason

 

[Caliban]

At 1st level it isn't even much of a choice! Since Exp retreat lets you jump further AND run faster too

(the other problem with the scaling of the spell is that it reduces the point of putting the spell on the ranger spell list (for instance) since their caster level is half character level (unless houseruled in some way)

Regards

Sorry, that should have been "you don't need to decide..."

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Yes, but as mentioned several times, you can't cast Exp Retreat on other people. In fact, that's the reason I didn't take the spell when I leveled on Saturday. I had wanted to cast it on our half-orc in full plate (he hits hard but takes forever to get up close).

Yes, it's better than Jump, but only if your spellcaster is the one doing the jumping.

Just curious, how does Jump get the half-orc close to combat faster? As I recall, jumping movement also counts as regular movement (so if his base speed is 20, and he jumps 40 feet he's completed a double move).

 

[Lela]

Just curious, how does Jump get the half-orc close to combat faster? As I recall, jumping movement also counts as regular movement (so if his base speed is 20, and he jumps 40 feet he's completed a double move).

I was talking about Exp Retreat and giving an example regarding one of it's downsides. A range of Personal can be very hard on a spell.

True Strike, as another example, would be far more powerful if it could be cast on someone else. Naturally, it would be unbalanced, much like Exp Retreat would be were it castable on anyone.

 

[Thanee]

I wonder what seemed too powerful about the spell that they decided to restrict it in 3.5e though?

It gives a bonus to a skill.

Bye
Thanee