Jumping with others

[Omnifarious Grey]

Short and sweet.

How would you:

A: make a jump while carrying someone.

B: make a jump while grabbing an enemy


Both cases you wish to bring the target with you, so how would this be done or does a special ruling needed to allow such things.

 

[Nightson]

A: -5 penalty for weight, can get running start

B: -10 penalty for weight and lack of cooperation, can't get running start

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

A: -5 penalty for weight, can get running start

B: -10 penalty for weight and lack of cooperation, can't get running start

Interesting, what about having the rogue utility "Great Leap"? How would this ability come into play?

 

[Nightson]

I wouldn't allow it with B, YMMV

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

I wouldn't allow it with B, YMMV

What are your thoughts of allowing it if the target is dazed, or if you make a seperate grab/strength check?

 

[MarkB]

Short and sweet.

How would you:

A: make a jump while carrying someone.

Check whether the items (including person) you are currently carrying exceed your carrying capacity. If not, you can jump normally. If so, you are Slowed as per the standard carrying capacity rules. You can still jump, but your speed is 2, which severely limits the distance you can clear. Extremely heavy weights may be impossible for you to lift off the ground at all.

What are your thoughts of allowing [jumping with an opponent] if the target is dazed, or if you make a seperate grab/strength check?

I'm thinking no. You'd need your opponent to be Helpless before you could try something like that.

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

I'm thinking no. You'd need your opponent to be Helpless before you could try something like that.

How so? If you are able to move a character you have grabbed a distance on the ground, why not through the air?

My question is to figure out what would be needed in order to force a jump on someone as you have grabbed them, ideally to jump with them a distance. Would they need to be under a certain condition, or could you make a certain check to do so, or can you just do so as is but need to obey weight limits, etc...

 

[MarkB]

How so? If you are able to move a character you have grabbed a distance on the ground, why not through the air?

Because you're dragging them, not lifting them. There's no way you can make a successful jump with a similar-sized creature who is able to resist you in any way - and a dazed opponent can still resist you.

My question is to figure out what would be needed in order to force a jump on someone as you have grabbed them, ideally to jump with them a distance. Would they need to be under a certain condition, or could you make a certain check to do so, or can you just do so as is but need to obey weight limits, etc...

Under a certain condition. The Helpless condition.

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

Because you're dragging them, not lifting them. There's no way you can make a successful jump with a similar-sized creature who is able to resist you in any way - and a dazed opponent can still resist you.

Under a certain condition. The Helpless condition.

I think you are being a bit too stubborn on that fact. Theoretically, if you are stronger than an enemy, why would you not be able to not only lift him, but to either throw or jump with him?

The possibilities to do this is what I am trying to figure out. This is also trying to get beyond the simple scope of doing practically what you want with a foe who is helpless, such as doing so in combat to either move a foe somewhere else or to possibly use in combination with attacks (future idea).

 

[MarkB]

I think you are being a bit too stubborn on that fact. Theoretically, if you are stronger than an enemy, why would you not be able to not only lift him, but to either throw or jump with him?

Theoretically, you could, but I tend to think that, in 4e's way of doing things, such abilities would fall more within the scope of powers than of everyday abilities. I could quite easily see a monk being able to do such things with At-Will or Encounter powers, but I don't see them as something every character could do.

The possibilities to do this is what I am trying to figure out. This is also trying to get beyond the simple scope of doing practically what you want with a foe who is helpless, such as doing so in combat to either move a foe somewhere else or to possibly use in combination with attacks (future idea).

There are already sufficient methods of moving characters around (bull rush, moving a grapple, all sorts of forced-movement powers). Allowing enemies to be thrown or jumped with will introduce some abusive exploits, such as characters jumping over a gulf with an opponent and dropping them mid-jump, or throwing them into hazardous terrain with no saving throw.

Actually, there's an idea. It's more than I'd tend to allow when DMing, but if you really want to make it possible to jump with a dazed opponent, give them a saving throw. If they succeed, then both creatures fall prone in their starting squares.