[Just Curious] Darksun greatest villian

megamania · Jan 4, 2003

With the exception of the other SK teaming up with Dregoth, I didn't really see a problem. The story takes place several years after Cerulean Storm. In hindsight, the biggest issue I had is it removed one of the more interesting SK from the board.

Alzrius · Jan 4, 2003

megamania said:
With the exception of the other SK teaming up with Dregoth, I didn't really see a problem. The story takes place several years after Cerulean Storm. In hindsight, the biggest issue I had is it removed one of the more interesting SK from the board.

The fact that it removed him at all is one such problem, since canon materials have never stated that happened at all. We don't know how many years after the Cerulean Storm it happened either, it could have been two or ten, but using the previous books as a reference makes it seem more like just two or three, which newer works have already caught up to. Hamanu isn't dead or gone.

Other problems (yes, I know, I nitpick):

- There never was a Champion named "Pennarin".

- Kalak was a Champion. RaFoaDK has Hamanu saying he was not.

- Dregoth was neither already immortal nor already battling giants when Rajaat approached him, as RaFoaDK said.

- Just casting spells does not turn a SK into a dragon!

- Hamanu's physical description does not match the one provided in the Prism Pentad books.

- "Innenek" is not the Oba's real name, Lalali-Puy is.

- Hamanu thinks to himself, when confronting Borys, that he needed no sword to kill off the trolls. However, Psionic Artifacts of Athas lists "The Scorcher" a sword artifact that it says Hamanu used during the Cleansing Wars (and later used to kill Dregoth).

- Rajaat cannot cast spells in the material world again. He is still trapped in the Hollow.

- Dregoth is not known to the Sorcerer-Kings, or anyone else, and certainly wouldn't send an undead army to the surface, since he hides his own undead nature even from his people, the dray.

- Hamanu mentions that he can't understand Windreaver when the troll speaks to him in his native language. According to Dragon Kings Dragons at any stage of their transformation can speak and understand all languages.

- The way magic is used, learned, and described throughout the book doesn't match D&D style magic at all.

- Pavek was a "druid/templar" a multi-class combination that, under the AD&D 2E rules (which were the ones in use when that story was written) was not allowed (since both came from the Priest subset of classes, and 2E rules were you couldnt dual- or multi-class in the same subset).

and thats just what I can recall off the top of my head.

megamania · Jan 4, 2003

Many of your points are true. I must concede to that. But reading between the lines and the Hamanu even suggested ALL of the SK purposely misled others into believing different histories so as to hide their true names and identities. This is part of the trick...sorting (reader's perception & opinion) the facts from the myth.

Azure Trance · Jan 4, 2003

Isn't the greatest villian that uber-10th level dragon from Valley of Dust & Fire? And why is Dregoth doomed to failure of never being able to become a God?

megamania · Jan 4, 2003

Depending on the time period of play, Borys, the ruler of Ur-Draxa has been destroyed by the joint works of Rikus and Rajaat.

As far as Dregoth trying to become a god, in the strictest rules, Darksun (Athas) has no gods. As they put it, the "mechinism" (sp) for one dosen't exist there.

Azure Trance · Jan 4, 2003

Please refresh me on who Rikus and Rajaat are

Epic adventurers, champions, something ... ? Recalling the stats from the accessory whoever they are must've been uber-powerful to get through his storm, his army, and then him himself in his fortress. What happened to his little utopia after he was destroyed?

Alzrius · Jan 4, 2003

megamania said:
Many of your points are true. I must concede to that. But reading between the lines and the Hamanu even suggested ALL of the SK purposely misled others into believing different histories so as to hide their true names and identities. This is part of the trick...sorting (reader's perception & opinion) the facts from the myth.

Mentioning that reminds me:

- Hamanu said the Champions have reigned for 1000 years now, that the 2000 year timeline made by other city-states is false. But the revised boxed set states definitively that the Sorcerer-kings really have ruled for 2000 years.

As for filtering perceptions...admittedly, the book mostly focuses on Hamanu's memories and such, but it is told in "omniscient-narrator" style (Hamanu is referred to as "he" instead of "I" and character actions are done in the past-tense), meaning that what is said and done is what is really said and done. The way things are is presented as how they really are, with Hamanu presenting the "true" history where everyone else lied. That isn't so. And a lot of other errors aren't even presented in that context, so that rationalization doesn't apply either.

Azure Trance: The person you are referring to is Borys of Ebe aka The Dragon. Borys had more levels than anyone else so far, and could be very malicious (as all of the other sorcerer-kings were), but if you're talking about the "greatest villain" being the most powerful, then it wasn't him, since his former master, Rajaat, killed Borys when Borys was sent to the Hollow, Rajaat's prison, by being covered in what appeared to be pure shadow from the broken Scourge sword.

Dregoth can never become a god because on Athas (that is, in that crystal sphere that Athas resides in) it is impossible for a god to form, or for an existing god to generate ties there (hence why there are no deity-clerics on that world). Its something to do with the planar structure of how that crystal sphere formed, apparently (since it connects to the Grey and the Black, with the Grey making it difficult to reach the Ethereal Plane and past it to the Inner Planes, and virtually impossible to reach the Astral Plane and past it to the Outer Planes). Dregoth does not realize this, and wants to become a god on Athas itself so he can be the sole true god there, which can never happen.

megamania · Jan 4, 2003

Azure Trance said:
Please refresh me on who Rikus and Rajaat are Epic adventurers, champions, something ... ? Recalling the stats from the accessory whoever they are must've been uber-powerful to get through his storm, his army, and then him himself in his fortress. What happened to his little utopia after he was destroyed?

Rikus is the Mul gladiator champion of Tyr. He was manipulated (along with ALL of the heroes of Tyr) by Tithian and Rajaat to kill Borys thus freeing Rajaat from his prison- the Hollow. The sword Rikus used was an extension of Rajaat (the black ooze).

Based on Rise and Fall of a Dragon King Ur Draxa is a swampy foggy ruin where it rains 24/7 (or should I say 24/6?). NO ONE has survived within the city which is now deserted.

Would make an excellent high level adventure....hmmmm

Alzrius · Jan 4, 2003

Azure Trance said:
Please refresh me on who Rikus and Rajaat are Epic adventurers, champions, something ... ? Recalling the stats from the accessory whoever they are must've been uber-powerful to get through his storm, his army, and then him himself in his fortress. What happened to his little utopia after he was destroyed?

Rikus was a mul gladiator. I forget his stats and level, but they're in Beyond the Prism Pentad. Rajaat is so uber-high level that he has never been statted. He invented sorcerous magic on Athas. He's probably the closest thing Athas has to a god in terms of power and fear and magic he commands (once Borys was sent to his prison, he utterly crushed the life from him easily).

They didn't have to penetrate Ur Draxa though (and what is this storm you referred to?) or fight his army. Rather, he took the fight to them directly, deciding that they were too dangerous to be allowed to live (and they wanted to kill him to protect more innocent people from being killed by him).

As for Ur Draxa, very shortly after Borys died, the Cerulean Storm was born, and the place is now a torn mudpit, existing under hurricane-force winds, constant lightning strikes, and torrential rain.

megamania · Jan 4, 2003

...and from these storms lives the now Storm-elemtal Tithian.

Seems you have a good feel for the world. What types of villians did you/your DM use besides the SK?