Just how intelligent are unintelligent undead?
- Thread starter Belbarrus
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Zhure
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Just how intelligent are unintelligent undead?
PHB, page 225, Magic mouth spell description, first paragraph.
"This spell imbues the chosen object or creature with an enchanted mouth that suddenly appears and speaks its message
the next time a specified event occurs. The message, which must be twenty-five or fewer words long, can be in any language known by you and can be delivered over a period of 10 minutes. The mouth cannot speak verbal components, use command words, or activate magical effects."
emphasis added
yennico said:
PHB, page 225, Magic mouth spell description, first paragraph.
"This spell imbues the chosen object or creature with an enchanted mouth that suddenly appears and speaks its message
the next time a specified event occurs. The message, which must be twenty-five or fewer words long, can be in any language known by you and can be delivered over a period of 10 minutes. The mouth cannot speak verbal components, use command words, or activate magical effects."
emphasis added
Last edited:
Celebrim
Legend
Basically, they can conclude nothing. Think of them as a computer with a operating system already installed, a command line parsar, and just enough memory for a handful of simple macros. They have a few basic instincts and can handle a few simple instructions from thier creator but that's about the limit of it. I will have them 'run out of memory' and start forgetting things they have been told if the player seems to be trying to 'program' them with too complex of behavior.
"-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything."
You are correct. At most, the cleric could provide a template, "Attack anyone that doesn't wear purple. Attack anyone that doesn't show you one of these (holds up his unholy symbol)."
"-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank."
That's certainly reasonable. Remember though, it takes a certain ammount of instinct to know about slashing with claws or weapons and its possible very basic tactical knowledge like 'surround the opponent' will flow out of those instincts to destroy something naturally like a simple robot programmed to achieve locomotion using the least energy possible. For instance, two skeletons will have a tendency to float around to a flanking position after a round or two of melee simply by following the path of least resistance to the goal (get close to target without being hit).
"The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent penalties using armor)."
You are correct with regards to professions and skills (including in my opinion hand writing), but not in my opinion correct with regards to the use of weapons and armor. Basic instincts with regards to picking up something and bashing/slashing with it seem to be built into the creature. See the 'skeleton template' on the wizards website for more information. This interpretation also has the advantage of fitting well with the tradiational 1st edition skeleton armed with 'scraps of chain, shield, and sword'. It appears however that different people at wizards have differing opinions regarding weapon proficiencies and skeletons though, if savage speicies is any judge.
"Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor."
That is correct. Anything that takes more than a sentence or two to explain is beyond them.
"Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner
commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?"
Skeletons apparantly come with the ability to parse the language of thier creator. So long as the instructions are simple and require no deduction on thier part, they appear to no what that means. 'Climb that rope' is no more complex symmanticly than 'Attack that." If they can understand one it is reasonable that they can understand the other. However, as other posters have pointed out, they have no understanding about how reasonable the command is either. Ordered to attack a stone wall, they will continue to attack it until they splinter enough bones that they destroy themselves. They are equally happy to try to jump mile wide chasms and three foot gullies.
"-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?"
"Hide behind that" is no complex than "attack that", so I would say yes. A skeleton can attempt to move silently but would not do a good job of it.
"-Is it safe to assume that skeletons know nothing other than moving and fighting?"
More or less, yes. I've always claimed that they instinctively know the difference between 'dead' and 'not dead' as well. I would allow you to order a skeleton to attack any living thing that passed by and they would then ignore other undead. I've also also claimed that they have something of an instinct for self-defence, that is that they implicitly understand to attack anything that attacks them as a 'default behavior' unless explicitly overriden by an instruction. Of course, they might not understand that they should attack what thier fellows attack unless order.
"-He told a skeleton to attack any enemy that comes through the door. I said that the skeleton cannot determine who is a friend or enemy and will attack anything."
You are correct. At most, the cleric could provide a template, "Attack anyone that doesn't wear purple. Attack anyone that doesn't show you one of these (holds up his unholy symbol)."
"-I told him that when ordered to attack, the skeletons will take the most direct route to the target, even walking through threat areas. They will not move into postion on purpose that lets them flank."
That's certainly reasonable. Remember though, it takes a certain ammount of instinct to know about slashing with claws or weapons and its possible very basic tactical knowledge like 'surround the opponent' will flow out of those instincts to destroy something naturally like a simple robot programmed to achieve locomotion using the least energy possible. For instance, two skeletons will have a tendency to float around to a flanking position after a round or two of melee simply by following the path of least resistance to the goal (get close to target without being hit).
"The skeletons have no profession, can have no feats and are therefore not proficient in using weapons and armor (i.e. they will attack at -4 with any weapon and suffer non-proficent penalties using armor)."
You are correct with regards to professions and skills (including in my opinion hand writing), but not in my opinion correct with regards to the use of weapons and armor. Basic instincts with regards to picking up something and bashing/slashing with it seem to be built into the creature. See the 'skeleton template' on the wizards website for more information. This interpretation also has the advantage of fitting well with the tradiational 1st edition skeleton armed with 'scraps of chain, shield, and sword'. It appears however that different people at wizards have differing opinions regarding weapon proficiencies and skeletons though, if savage speicies is any judge.
"Skeletons cannot be 'taught' anything. You cannot train a skeleton to use a skill, weapon or to wear armor."
That is correct. Anything that takes more than a sentence or two to explain is beyond them.
"Can a skeleton Climb, Jump or Swim or use any other skill that can be used untrained? Is a skeleton intelligent enough to climb a rope or jump over a 3 foot wide pit? Even if the owner
commands them, "Climb that rope." does the skeleton even know what that means?"
Skeletons apparantly come with the ability to parse the language of thier creator. So long as the instructions are simple and require no deduction on thier part, they appear to no what that means. 'Climb that rope' is no more complex symmanticly than 'Attack that." If they can understand one it is reasonable that they can understand the other. However, as other posters have pointed out, they have no understanding about how reasonable the command is either. Ordered to attack a stone wall, they will continue to attack it until they splinter enough bones that they destroy themselves. They are equally happy to try to jump mile wide chasms and three foot gullies.
"-Can a skeleton hide or move silently? Do they know what to do if their owner orders them to hide?"
"Hide behind that" is no complex than "attack that", so I would say yes. A skeleton can attempt to move silently but would not do a good job of it.
"-Is it safe to assume that skeletons know nothing other than moving and fighting?"
More or less, yes. I've always claimed that they instinctively know the difference between 'dead' and 'not dead' as well. I would allow you to order a skeleton to attack any living thing that passed by and they would then ignore other undead. I've also also claimed that they have something of an instinct for self-defence, that is that they implicitly understand to attack anything that attacks them as a 'default behavior' unless explicitly overriden by an instruction. Of course, they might not understand that they should attack what thier fellows attack unless order.
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