Just saw X-Men III (Now with spoilers!)
- Thread starter Firebeetle
- Start date
I just saw it. I really liked it, thought it was really good. I was just wondering thou, how fast can angel fly? He did not go onboard the xjet that has to travel from New York state to San Farnsisco(Sp?) In a matter of hours, but he can fly there in time to save his Dad in about the same time the xjet can?
Vigilance
Explorer
buzzard said:
This is a credit to Iam McKellan as an actor I think and why he plays a better villain than anyone alive atm.
You have the same reaction to him when you watch him play Richard III. He has a way of seeming likable and reasonable while doing horrible things. So since people like him, they try to rationalize away what he does as "not so bad".
Tying in to what I was saying above about Xavier not being as nice as he is likable, this helps explain why Xavier and Magneto don't just kill each other. They're not that different, they like each other, and deep down, don't have a problem with each other's methods.
Like good cop and bad cop, they both have the same agenda and are willing to turn a blind eye to each others' tactics.
griff_goodbeard
First Post
I saw it last night and found it enjoyable. It was money well spent. The only thing I didn't like was how rushed it felt. I thought the Dark Phoenix storyline would be cool to explore in a movie, and I liked the whole "cure" plotline, but I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if they would have done one or the other instead of cramming them both into the same film.
Someone
Adventurer
buzzard said:
And in the first move he invented a machine that turned people into mutants (a reverse cure), so maybe in the end his character hasn´t changed so much. But I had the impression that he saw the human-mutant conflict as a war -a total war, meaning complete enemy destruction- while in the 3rd movie it´s clear he dehumanizes non-mutants, to the point that a close and loyal associate wasn´t worthy of a kind word when she loses her powers.
Thinking on it, there´s a progression in the 3 movies: in the first, he wanted to turn leaders into mutants so he could unite humanity. In the second, he reversed Striker´s machine, and in the third he sinks really low with all the blatant racist stuff (even when obviously, killing every human is objetively worse than anything he did in the 3rd movie)
Kunimatyu
First Post
And just as a side thing, Magneto taking in Mystique-sans-powers probably wouldn't be the best idea anyways, as he'd have to protect her from his little Brotherhood mini-army all the time, and (from his perspective) he wouldn't be able to help her regain her powers, so she's probably better off just doing the human thing. Cold, yes, but not much more horrible than Xavier repressing Jean Grey or reprogramming Wolverine's mind. In fact, probably less.
delericho
Legend
Spoilers....
I blinked at the key moment, so didn't see the "Magneto moving the chess piece" thing at the end, and I left before the end of the credits, so didn't see the "Xavier is alive" thing, and I'm really glad of that. I found the ending really sad, showing what Rogue had given up, and everything that Magneto had lost. Ian McKellan did a really fine job of portraying what a lost, defeated and lonely old man Magneto was without his powers, his purpose, or the people he cared about (Mystique and Xavier).
But if Magneto still has his powers, then it means that the 'Cure' isn't permanent (and how I hate calling it a 'Cure'!), which means that Rogue's decision, Mystique's betrayal, and most of the events of the film became meaningless.
Likewise, if Xavier is alive, then all the character reactions to his death are cheated. It's like a big reset button has been pushed. In fact, all they need to do is find some way to bring Cyclops back, and things will be back to exactly where they were without the film.
This sort of bringing characters back from the dead makes for lousy storytelling, IMO. Every time it's done, it cheapens death. People can't make sacrifices, because you just know they'll be back. It's far better IMO for the writers to either make the death stick or, and here's a radical suggestion, not kill the character off in the first place.
But if Magneto still has his powers, then it means that the 'Cure' isn't permanent (and how I hate calling it a 'Cure'!), which means that Rogue's decision, Mystique's betrayal, and most of the events of the film became meaningless.
Likewise, if Xavier is alive, then all the character reactions to his death are cheated. It's like a big reset button has been pushed. In fact, all they need to do is find some way to bring Cyclops back, and things will be back to exactly where they were without the film.
This sort of bringing characters back from the dead makes for lousy storytelling, IMO. Every time it's done, it cheapens death. People can't make sacrifices, because you just know they'll be back. It's far better IMO for the writers to either make the death stick or, and here's a radical suggestion, not kill the character off in the first place.
Thanee
First Post
delericho said:
Of course it isn't permanent. Leech only removes the powers when someone is nearby, they are regained as soon as one leaves his area of influence. The 'cure' will work for a while, but once the liquid is dissolved, it is gone. It's not a 'cure' (they just call it that, since they think it is, and more importantly, since they think mutation is a disease), it's a suppressor, just like Leech's power, which it is based on.
Well, that's superheroes and supervillains... they don't die... they evolve.
Bye
Thanee
stevelabny
Explorer
Random thoughts.
A big EH. Not a disaster, but not great either.
I havent seen anyone mention it, but there was a net rumor that Cyclops was killed off because Marsden signed on to be in Superman.
The "new" origin of Phoenix was actually something I was ok with. As were a lot of the other moves some people are calling character assassinations. Of course Magneto would leave Mystique behind, because they were allies, he didn't kill her (even knowing she would probably betray him).
I was glad to see the Prof get offed as wise old mentors are supposed to die, and it would be torturous to have to continue to mostly write him out (x1) or otherwise occupy him (x2) at the end of EVERY movie because he's so ridiculously powerful he can basically stop time.
He needs to die to let the team grow. If only comics had the brains to offf him. Luckily, the after-credits scene doesn't have to be followed up on with a full return.
But with Prof gone, killing Cyclops becomes even more of a mistake. Not only does he get all his end-of-the-Phoenix-saga lines given to Wolverine, but now we're stuck with Halle Berry in charge of the school? Yikes. That's reason enough to wait 5 years for x4...so Iceman and Rogue can be the "elderstatesmen" teaching a group of New Mutants. (Can I get a Cannonball? )
I don't understand the cries of no characterization either, as the way the script was constructed, you got characterization and closure for Cyclops and Jean. Wolverine continues to be the star. Storm was actually ok in this movie. We took care of Iceman, Pyro and Rogue. They hit all the notes they absolutely needed to hit (which is why the movie winds up OK)
What the movie was lacking was humor. The minor-profanity exchange between Juggernaut and Kitty wasn't half as funny as it was supposed to be. We already got that humor out of the way in the legendary Cyclops-Wolvy exchange in X1. The one or two other minor lines just weren't enough.
But Frasier played a good Beat and they gave him a chance to say "Oh my stars and garters" and thats gotta be worth a few points right there.
So it gets a barely passing grade, but is filled with some franchise-damaging mistakes. Of course, the X-verse is soooo huge, that could be fixed if they wanted to. But I don't know how likely that is.
A big EH. Not a disaster, but not great either.
I havent seen anyone mention it, but there was a net rumor that Cyclops was killed off because Marsden signed on to be in Superman.
The "new" origin of Phoenix was actually something I was ok with. As were a lot of the other moves some people are calling character assassinations. Of course Magneto would leave Mystique behind, because they were allies, he didn't kill her (even knowing she would probably betray him).
I was glad to see the Prof get offed as wise old mentors are supposed to die, and it would be torturous to have to continue to mostly write him out (x1) or otherwise occupy him (x2) at the end of EVERY movie because he's so ridiculously powerful he can basically stop time.
He needs to die to let the team grow. If only comics had the brains to offf him. Luckily, the after-credits scene doesn't have to be followed up on with a full return.
But with Prof gone, killing Cyclops becomes even more of a mistake. Not only does he get all his end-of-the-Phoenix-saga lines given to Wolverine, but now we're stuck with Halle Berry in charge of the school? Yikes. That's reason enough to wait 5 years for x4...so Iceman and Rogue can be the "elderstatesmen" teaching a group of New Mutants. (Can I get a Cannonball? )
I don't understand the cries of no characterization either, as the way the script was constructed, you got characterization and closure for Cyclops and Jean. Wolverine continues to be the star. Storm was actually ok in this movie. We took care of Iceman, Pyro and Rogue. They hit all the notes they absolutely needed to hit (which is why the movie winds up OK)
What the movie was lacking was humor. The minor-profanity exchange between Juggernaut and Kitty wasn't half as funny as it was supposed to be. We already got that humor out of the way in the legendary Cyclops-Wolvy exchange in X1. The one or two other minor lines just weren't enough.
But Frasier played a good Beat and they gave him a chance to say "Oh my stars and garters" and thats gotta be worth a few points right there.
So it gets a barely passing grade, but is filled with some franchise-damaging mistakes. Of course, the X-verse is soooo huge, that could be fixed if they wanted to. But I don't know how likely that is.
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