D&D 5E Justin Alexander's review of Shattered Obelisk is pretty scathing

[darjr]

Yea and those 3 rooms i have to look through a paragraph of nothing instead of just looking at the key and seeing whats there in a 5 seconds.

Like, this is just a basic information deliver failure here.

Baloney. West wing and east wing to complicated?

I’m surprised he and you give us enough credit to be able to count to three.

 

[delericho]

Like, this is just a basic information deliver failure here...

Possibly of interest here: back when I ran LMoP for the second time, for family reasons I had to drop out for a while and one of the players took over running the thing. He was a first-time DM.

Anyway, one of the things that he expressed to me when I got back was that he didn't feel that the information was well presented.

So the "information delivery failure" thing isn't new here - just different.

 

[FallenRX]

Have you read the paragraphs in question, or are yoylu taking the Clickbaiter's word for it?

I have, i actually did read it before he ever made this review as i was excited for a LMOP follow up, and was a bit confused by that section as well, now after reading the paragraph i got it, but it was just harder to reference then if, they did the barest of minimums and at least on the DM map side put the text "War Room, Hostage Room, Pillars" so on actually on the map, any they didnt even do that.

So yea i think just a typical basic DnD map keying, is just organizationally better then what they actually did in the adventure, and makes it harder to run then if they just normally keyed it.

Like why is this worse for no good reason, like was their no better way to present this information? Like no other ideas, even if it wasnt worth keying as you guy say, do you really think this is the ideal way to handle this, that is the best of all possible worlds? I dont, i think even the keying bit aside its just kinda badly written and laid out, for no good reason.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are you seriously saying that quantity has increased and quality decreased since 2nd edition?!?

I would accept an argument of quality decrease since 2e (by some metrics). But quantity?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Everything else aside:

Are we stil actually worrying about the "logic" of a dungeon adventure that is designed in an explicitly gamist way? Come on. You knew what you signed up for when you picked up the D&D PHB: dungeons AND dragons (or hydras, as the case may be).

There are likely very reasonable complaints to be made about any WotC adventure. The designers behind them are a) human, b) have preferences, and c) working under time constraints. Nothing is going to be perfect. But your complaint is "the adventure does not delve deeply enough into the ecology of this series of rooms full of monsters"? In 2023. I'm sorry, but no.

2023 or not, a deeper ecological dive is one of the things I want from D&D.

 

[Parmandur]

I have, i actually did read it before he ever made this review as i was excited for a LMOP follow up, and was a bit confused by that section as well, now after reading the paragraph i got it, but it was just harder to reference then if, they did the barest of minimums and at least on the DM map side put the text "War Room, Hostage Room, Pillars" so on actually on the map, any they didnt even do that.

So yea i think just a typical basic DnD map keying, is just organizationally better then what they actually did in the adventure, and makes it harder to run then if they just normally keyed it.

Like why is this worse for no good reason, like was their no better way to present this information? Like no other ideas, even if it wasnt worth keying as you guy say, do you really think this is the ideal way to handle this, that is the best of all possible worlds? I dont, i think even the keying bit aside its just kinda badly written and laid out, for no good reason.

Why would they key a single standalone room?

It is probably part of their style guide to not key a single room. and it is not a sign that Modernism is rotting the minds of kids or something.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What do you mean "improved"? Dungeons are inherently silly constructions and no distribution of orcs and pies in rooms in going to stand up to any sort of scrutiny. We all know we are playing a game, especially when that game involves dungeon delving. What do you actually gain by stripping out all of the fun in favor of realism?

Does it have to be one or the other? Realism can be fun.

 

[Raiztt]

What do you mean "improved"? Dungeons are inherently silly constructions and no distribution of orcs and pies in rooms in going to stand up to any sort of scrutiny. We all know we are playing a game, especially when that game involves dungeon delving. What do you actually gain by stripping out all of the fun in favor of realism?

The idea of a structure or location that has treasures and/or monsters in it is not inherently silly and my players and I 100% expect there to be at least a facade of logic/ecology to these locations.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think he's going as far as "dead hobby", but I think he's trying to imply the quality of adventure-writing is going to go downhill and even that remains to be seen.

I have to say I am pretty surprised WotC let this go out like this, because LMoP was such a cool product, and it's a real shame for the rest of this to be a mess.

Giving some of the best work in WotC (shame it was the first) a black mark is a rough place to be.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't think Matt Mercer's all that either. In that Force Grey show he DMed, he ruled that a PC got squashed flat (dead) in a trap with no save or other way of avoiding death. Just DM fiat. Boom. Gone. Put me off watching him. (Not that I've ever been particularly interested in watching over people play D&D but I gave the Force Grey show a try because it was short ...)

That's because Hardwick was being a problematic player and/or was leaving the show. You'll note, had you continued watching, that he was replaced by Brian Posehn in the next episode, IIRC. It was a stunt to switch players, not a regular ruling.