D&D 5E Justin Alexander's review of Shattered Obelisk is pretty scathing

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Part of this whole conundrum is that because use pre-printed adventures in all kinds of different ways... everyone will have different tolerances on things that could be considered good or bad. So for example... I never run adventure path books as-is. They always end up being just a spine around which the adventure ends up flowing. So for me, the most important part is the story that the book is giving me... if the story is compelling, if the villains have interesting motivations, if the actions the PCs are meant to undertake are easily grasped and the players have something meaningful to hold onto and accomplish... then to me the adventure is great! And questions like "How does this monster eat while in the closed room?" never even occur to me because chances are extremely good that the question will never come up, will never need to be addressed, and on the off-chance it does... improvising a quick answer that satisfies the players will take 3 seconds. So I'm never going to look for those issues in an adventure path, let alone dock the writers for not answering it themselves.

By the same token... adventures that other people may think are fantastic are ones that do little for me. Most of 4E's adventures from DDI Dungeon magazines are useless to me, because they consisted of nothing more than "Here's a location, and three combat encounters the players will go through to reach the end." Without having any through line or narrative as to what the monsters are doing there, what it the point of the location, and what are the various narrative hurdles (rather than monster encounters) that make the adventure compelling? So to me, those 4E adventures are completely pointless-- I can toss a handful of monsters in the path of the players on my own-- I want story!

I found a similar issue with the one Arcane Library module I downloaded from their site, after so many people said they had the best adventures they had ever read. And the adventure seemed fine... it was the Skyhorn Lighthouse one... but I wasn't blown away by it like other players seemed to have been. And I suspect it's because the stuff those players thought were so important and which the adventure did (that a lot of other adventures, including WotC ones don't) was that it wrote out reactions for the DM to take in response to three or more different ways the players might engage with the encounter (as most adventures usually only write one-- the most likely one-- probably to save word count.) Which again, for some players might be a godsend and a great revelation to adventure design... but for me, I know how to improvise reactions to whatever choices my players might make so having them written out for me does not do me much good. And since the narrative of the adventure was good, but nothing too original... I gave it a thumbs-up, but was not nearly as raving about it as other players here have been.

So at the end of the day when it comes to reviews, whether or not we find them useful or meaningful will ultimately come down to whether the reviewer cares about the same things we do. If we know that X reviewer is really concerned with "combat balance" for example and they crap on an adventure and give it a scathing review, we can go in and take their results with a massive grain of salt. And not really care that they crap on it, because they are crapping on something we ourselves feel to be pointless. So they are in 'Old man yells at clouds' territory, and why waste our time getting defensive about something like that?
 
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(Tyranny of Dragons is very close to my favourite adventure of all time because it just clicks with me).
The irony of course being that many players rank that as one of the "worst" 5E adventures, often because they say it is "too railroady". Which just goes to show how all manner of player care about or don't care about all manner of different things. Some people genuinely find the idea of a series of encounters or adventure sites the PCs are expected to go to without the book explaining what to do if they choose not to is enough for them to say the adventure is horrible. Whereas other people seem perfectly fine with guiding the players along the path in the background, even if they try wandering off. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that. :)
 

The irony of course being that many players rank that as one of the "worst" 5E adventures, often because they say it is "too railroady". Which just goes to show how all manner of player care about or don't care about all manner of different things. Some people genuinely find the idea of a series of encounters or adventure sites the PCs are expected to go to without the book explaining what to do if they choose not to is enough for them to say the adventure is horrible. Whereas other people seem perfectly fine with guiding the players along the path in the background, even if they try wandering off. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that. :)
Yeah, exactly! :)
 

The worst adventure of the modern era - in my opinion - is Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus. Yes, there are bits that I like - and you can mine the devil descriptions for adventure ideas. But as to structure and encounter writing, DiA one is horrid. (The only one I advise people avoid).

I'm currently playing through The Shattered Obelisk. Unfortunately, one of my players has been away for two weeks, so we haven't quite got through the Lost Mine portion. Soon, though! From what I've read, the fact that it came out around the same time as Baldur's Gate 3 does it no favours. Since BG3 uses lore-accurate mind flayers in key villainous positions, and this one... sort of has them around?

That may not be entirely fair, but to my mind, the adventure that works best as a follow-up to Lost Mine of Phandelver is Storm King's Thunder. Or Princes of the Apocalypse. Since they take the idea of wandering adventurers doing small quests and build it into something more.

The idea of adventurers doing quests for factions got expanded a little more in Dragon Heist. Not exactly well, but you can get the bones of how it works. It's also worth playing Lost Mine merged with Dragon of Icespire Peak (Essentials Kit). I ran one campaign like that, and it was awesome.

But with The Shattered Obelisk, it explicitly tells you the factions won't matter, and then depreciates almost all the NPCs you meet in the Lost Mine chapter. After telling you that it's important to build a bond with them due to later events. Only a very few get referenced in later chapters, and never in a manner that allows you to bond with them. Instead, the adventure introduces a Brand New Character who is the important one. Rather than using an existing character.

I think it will play okay based on what I read, but if it doesn't, I'll report that. I just don't see it as an inspired adventure. There are a lot of 5E adventures that are flawed, but I think are inspired. Tyranny of Dragons. Tomb of Annihilation. They challenge you to rise above their flaws and see what you can make of them. (Tyranny of Dragons is very close to my favourite adventure of all time because it just clicks with me).

I might be wrong, but I guess the play experience will tell, soon enough.

Cheers,
Merric
Thanks for sharing this! Lots of excellent context.
 


Not everyone's library keeps up with D&D publications.
Interlibrary loan should help with that. You may be shocked at what you can get completely free, from just about anywhere, these days. Of course, that would only be available for a couple.weeks, but if anyone isnok the fence about a book thst is probsvly long enough to kick them tires and get one's own opinion sorted.
 

The irony of course being that many players rank that as one of the "worst" 5E adventures, often because they say it is "too railroady". Which just goes to show how all manner of player care about or don't care about all manner of different things. Some people genuinely find the idea of a series of encounters or adventure sites the PCs are expected to go to without the book explaining what to do if they choose not to is enough for them to say the adventure is horrible. Whereas other people seem perfectly fine with guiding the players along the path in the background, even if they try wandering off. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that. :)
I’m one of those people who generally considered Tyranny of Dragons to be “the worst”. But to be more accurate, I actually felt that adventure has an awesome ending but starts out weak. My main complaint was always with Horde of the Dragon Queen (the first half of the adventure), partly because my group had such a bad experience with it as a follow-up to LMoP back in 2014; I ended up scrapping that story because my players were just as frustrated as I was running it. I still kinda wish we’d skipped straight into Rise of Tiamat.
 

Oh man is there a lot of stuff going on here. First, I remember the issues Justin had with Enworld but as I don't know the insider details, I am in no position to discuss them, and I think I would be rude to the hosts here to do so. So let's just talk about the review and the reviewer in general terms.

I know who Justin is and have read a lot of the stuff at the Alexandrian. It's been helpful to me. We don't exactly have the same tastes but I've read enough to have respect for what he says even if I don't always agree. To me that's the role of a critic. And I can't help but think that a lot of the criticism here is coming from people who are positive about everything that WotC does and feel somehow invested in the company. Trying to minimize the review by saying "who is this guy?" fails for me because I've known about the site for years, and it's referenced regularly.

I just finished playing Dragon Heist, and our DM used some of the advice from the Alexandrian to make the game better. I honestly don't know how much he used, but it was a good time, and reviews of Dragon Heist in general have been average to below average. That DM is asking "hey should I buy that Obelisk adventure to run as a follow-up?" What this is telling me, is no.

When I read that review, it sounds like this adventure was poorly put together and has a bunch of head scratching moments. While you expect some of that in D&D, I have played and run a ton of adventures where there was an attention to detail that made things work. Where they explained the placement of unusual monsters and tried to minimize the gonzo. I expect an adventure to pay attention to those things, especially if it comes from a major design team. There is a place for gonzo adventures to be sure, but I'm not interested in them, so when I see comments about that, it's a red flag for me.

What I'd recommend to people who liked the adventure is to tell me about it and what they liked, to write their own review. Talking about the reviewer's issues (and they have some!) is not productive in my opinion. So tell me why part 2 is awesome and why I should be interested in it!
 

Interlibrary loan should help with that. You may be shocked at what you can get completely free, from just about anywhere, these days.

I would NOT be surprised, as in the Boston area I have access to some of the best library systems in the nation.

I suggest you might be surprised that, unfortunately, not everyone has access to top of the line services - they are a privilege not everyone has. Librarians are generally awesome, but in some/many places they are woefully underfunded.
 

Dude, stop. You get triggered whenever someone criticizes something from WotC. That is a you issue, not a him issue.

Read the rest of his site or watch some of his YouTube videos. While he definitely is a curmudgeon, his opinions are generally well reasoned.

Compare him to someone like Dungeons & Discourse, who seems to just invent things to say are going to doom WotC each week for the sake of clicks.
(Sorry to interject, but who are you replying to? Idk maybe the page isn’t loading correctly for me, but I can’t see a quote in your comment and it doesn’t seem like you’re replying to the comment before. Just curious, sorry!)

EDIT: There are other comments that seem to be missing quotes too. Maybe my page is screwed up somehow.
 

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