Kalamar losing popularity?

[Arnwyn]

They're always fun to mine for ideas.

I've heard that before, but since that rarely meets my 80% rule, I really don't understand it.

(Arnwyn's 80% rule: a d20 book must contain at least 80% usable material for my campaign, otherwise it gets a no-buy... because of the number of d20 books out there, I can find exactly what I want that *does* meet the 80% rule. My personal cost-benefit analysis shows that anything under 80% in a book is a waste of money - and time.)

Certainly one reason why I don't buy much of any other campaign setting unless it can be used in my home campaign. For Kalamar, I have bought (and enjoyed) Geanvenue and all the adventures - since those are the types of books that fit in very well.

Aside:
It looks like some might consider Kalamar to be "generic and bland" because it doesn't have a gimmick (like some of the more recent settings).

 

[Mark Plemmons]

The Atlas is superb quality, but I have to say, the other two books just aren't doing anything for me to bring this world to life - and I'd like to know why (any pointers to pages etc would be most interested - I really want a return on my investment of time and money in Kalamar, but am afraid I won't get it and won't plough any more into the game at this stage). I read the Campaign Setting, and it was very dry. No real flavour I could see.

From all the various comments I've heard since KoK came out, I'm guessing that "flavor" is mostly just a matter of taste. (Hey, was that an pun? Hmmm... Still sounds true.) It appeals to some people but not to others.

However, I would recommend to new KoK readers that they NOT sit down and try to read the campaign setting sourcebook from start to finish. It really is a detailed gazetteer/history book, and I think that makes it more difficult for some readers to get through. Instead, try this a few times - flip randomly through the book and plunk your finger down somewhere on a page. Read that section, and see if you find something that makes your mind wander over all the adventure possibilities. Then try it again. And again.

Watch this - I'll do it myself (Honestly!) and see what we get...

Okay, I landed on page 53, column 2, and the paragraph about racial tolerance in the Principality of Pekal. Not really adventurous. However, if I look at the paragraphs immediately above, there's info about the war with the Kingdom of Tokis, border skirmishes, and wizards being supplied as a permanent corps of the army. Now I've got an idea - get the PCs hired to serve in the Pekalese army, to fight some guerrila raids and border skirmishes.

I'll try it again...

This time, I landed on page 95, column 2, and the "Government" descriptor for Shrogga-pravaaz, City of Giants. Sounds interesting...
This paragraph discusses the current mayor, a kobold shaman named Shosan-haasav, who answers to the kobold chieftain, Drossen-malak Traaggar. The mayor enforces his will by a combination of spell power and loyal followers. As a last resort, he can call upon the wrath of the kobold chieftain, but Traaggar has been known to side against a mayor before and throw him to the lions in the city's arena.
Sounds like flavor to me!

Having read the CS book and the Players Guide - I *still* don't get the role of Dwarves in Kalamar (so I have a soft spot for them from my Warhammer FRP days ). I see some comments that Dwarves within Kalamar are often mistaken as slaves - yet I know there must be Dwarven kingdoms somewhere, but the campaign setting only describes the human nations.

Not exactly true - humans are certainly prominent ('cause we breed like rabbits compared to other races), but they aren't alone. For example, the dwarven kingdoms of Draska (p123) and Karasta (or "Irontop," or the "Refuge of Exiles", page 69) are both detailed, as are some elven cities such as Lathlanian (p31), Doulathanorian (p67) and Cilorealon (p97). Not to mention the two hobgoblin kingdoms of Ul-Karg (p155) and Norga-Krangrel (p84)!

 

[Dristram]

It isn't WotCs job to promote Kalamar since it isn't their setting. It belongs to Kenzer & Co. and the D&D logo is used under license. It is therefore Kenzer's responsibility to promote the KoK brand, not WotCs.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

Granted, it's not their job. But, since WotC announced KoK as the third official D&D setting, I personally thought it should be mentioned at least sometimes by them besides the initial press release. When it comes to KoK, Kenzer&Co is like a division of WotC, creating products for the their 3rd official D&D setting. All KoK products must go through a WotC approval process that other companies, like Mongoose and S&S, don't have to. And WotC does have input into the setting's material, and has actually denied certain material and changed others. With all that involvement by WotC, I expected more promotion of the setting by WotC is all. Since it isn't happening, I feel that KoK is getting a raw deal. YMMV

 

[GrimJesta]

I can agree, even as a Kalamar fan and a student of medieval history in my senior year... the KoKCS book is indeed a dry read for the first few times you try to look at it. Even worse than most of the bland documents Ive had to translate from French or Latin in college (ones that described such exciting things as linens and types of wood used in ships. <yawn>).

But, I did was Mark Plemmons said to do us there after I owned the book for a month or so. I just started reading about the land of Tokis in the Empire of Kalamar. I loved the area and found so many adventure and campaign ideas jumping out at me. But I wanted to know about the areas around it, so that Tokis didnt exist in a vacuum, so I read more. Then I saw that the Golden Alliance was mentioned, an organization on Tellene, so I read about them... next thing I know I read the whole book just by flipping back and forth.

Kenzer should put a "How to Read This Book" disclaimer on the CS.


As for the Gods being confusing... most realistic religions are. The One God of the 'religions of the book" has a ton of names. God, Allah, Yaweh, Christ, etc. The Greek, Roman and Norse pantheons are similiar. Just the same ideas with different names. This is what Kalamar has. I doubt the the natives of Chult call Bane Bane, and the barbarians of Icewind Dale might have a name like Bjearn or something for him. Thats what Kalamar did. I wish all settings had that.


But so far there hasnt been a single setting that I think outright "sucked". Some dont appeal to me, but still have good ideas and are fun to read. Hell, I own a ton of Scarred Lands, Midnight, FR, etc books. And I use alot of them in Kalamar.

-=Grim=-

 

[der_kluge]

Even so, still not something I appreciate hearing Klugie. Especially when I have supported former Thunderhead and now post MEG products.

Nightfall, I respect your taste in supplements, and admire your dedication to the Scarred Lands line. I'm just getting kind of tired of hearing about it all the time. I'm fairly certain there's more to you than just that, but no offense, but you're coming across as kind of one-dimensional lately.

 

[Dristram]

Deleting double post

 

[WizarDru]

However, I would recommend to new KoK readers that they NOT sit down and try to read the campaign setting sourcebook from start to finish. It really is a detailed gazetteer/history book, and I think that makes it more difficult for some readers to get through. Instead, try this a few times - flip randomly through the book and plunk your finger down somewhere on a page. Read that section, and see if you find something that makes your mind wander over all the adventure possibilities. Then try it again. And again.

I've actually heard this mentioned elsewhere...that there is a lot of interesting stuff in there, but you need to look for it.

I'm seriously considering getting the Kalamar sourcebook, especially after hearing some of the stuff we're discussing here. My questions are these:

Have errata/3.5 conversions been released for the KalPHB (which I do have), and how difficult is it to grok the names (which I'm told are consistent and linguistically logical, but strike me as hard to get used to).

That reminds me...I need to get the second two modules in the 'Coin' series. Can I get those straight from Kenzer, since no store I've been to has them?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it myself. For those curious, the answer was Yes to the first question and Yes to the last. In fact, they're selling 9 modules together for $45! That's pretty spiff.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've purchased a few Kalamar adventures and run them in GH/FR and been happy with them -- happy enough that I've been tempted to pick up the CS, though I haven't been pushed over the edge yet. I probably wouldn't run a Kalamar campaign, though -- I've got enough campaign setting options as is.

 

[Ranes]

After admittedly reading only most of this thread, I'm going to give Kalamar another look, when I next get an opportunity to hit the local game store. I like some of what I've learned about it here, that I missed during my last glance through some of the books.

Perhaps, those of you who support Kalamar and want to see interest in it sustained, should lobby Paizo with the idea of them developing sidebars for re-setting Dungeon adventures in Kalamar.

 

[johnsemlak]

Granted, it's not their job. But, since WotC announced KoK as the third official D&D setting, I personally thought it should be mentioned at least sometimes by them besides the initial press release. When it comes to KoK, Kenzer&Co is like a division of WotC, creating products for the their 3rd official D&D setting. All KoK products must go through a WotC approval process that other companies, like Mongoose and S&S, don't have to. And WotC does have input into the setting's material, and has actually denied certain material and changed others. With all that involvement by WotC, I expected more promotion of the setting by WotC is all. Since it isn't happening, I feel that KoK is getting a raw deal. YMMV

My understanding is while Kalamar is considered an 'official' setting, the terms of Kenzer's licence are such that WotC has no obligation to promote Kalamar. I'm not familiar with the two companies' relationship but it seems that WotC really has no obligation as such. Kenzer is a separate company wiht a liscence to use the D&D logo. THat's it.

WotC does approve Kenzer's stuff but that's to do with the license Kenzer have with WotC.