Keen bows--the final answer(?)

[hong]

I guess you haven't seen Princess Mononoke, with Ashi-taka and his vorpal bow

Let me tell you about the time I did 240 points of damage with one shot, to a fiendish tyrannosaur....


Hong "putting the RPG back into RPGs" Ooi

 

[Cyraneth]

Firstly - arrows don't have a threat range, so doubling their threat range is pointless. Bows have a threat range; arrows do not. So a bow doesn't need to bestow the Keen property onto its ammunition.

But secondly - Keen as a property does not appear on the Ranged Weapons Special Abilities table. Only on the Melee table.

-Hyp.

While I agree with Hyp, I would like to point out that these tables are used primarily for random treasure and/or item generation. Thus, a custom-enchanted bow could, in theory, have the keen ability as nothing (except the DM) prevents one from enchanting a ranged weapon with that ability.

Oh, and to confuse things a little more (and sticking with Hyp's first point), there's no point in magical bows bestowing the flaming, frost, etc. ability upon the arrows as it is also the bow that has a damage rating, not the arrows.

I believe the designer intended for the bow's "ratings and properties" to be transferred to each arrow fired by the bow, so to speak. That would explain the peculiar wording.

Just adding to the confusion, nothing more...

- Cyraneth

 

[Hypersmurf]

While I agree with Hyp, I would like to point out that these tables are used primarily for random treasure and/or item generation. Thus, a custom-enchanted bow could, in theory, have the keen ability as nothing (except the DM) prevents one from enchanting a ranged weapon with that ability.

Of course, the rules for creating magic weapons specifically refer you to those tables as well...

-Hyp.

 

[Cyraneth]

Of course, the rules for creating magic weapons specifically refer you to those tables as well...

-Hyp.

Which again makes it impossible for anyone to use the weapon and armor special abilities in anything but the DMG.

- Cyraneth

 

[Hypersmurf]

Which again makes it impossible for anyone to use the weapon and armor special abilities in anything but the DMG.

Not really. Books that include new weapon abilities generally include tables for those abilities. Since the abilities are an extension to the list of available abilities, the tables are just extensions of the tables in the DMG...

Random sample:
PsiHB: Melee Weapon Special Abilities table and Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table.
A&EG: Melee Weapon Special Abilities table and Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table.
S&F: Weapon Special Abilities table, with a column denoting Melee, Ranged, or both.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Cyraneth, of course you can do a keen bow. You can also do a bow of heart-piercing (same as vorpal). But the DMG does not offer this option right away, you'll have to make up custom stuff to do so, because keen is a pure melee weapon enchantment in the DMG.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cyraneth]

Cyraneth, of course you can do a keen bow. You can also do a bow of heart-piercing (same as vorpal). But the DMG does not offer this option right away, you'll have to make up custom stuff to do so, because keen is a pure melee weapon enchantment in the DMG.

Bye
Thanee

I know, I know. I was merely using Hyp's arguments to "jump to conclusions." The keen property isn't specifically limited to melee weapons, however, in any other way than only showing up on the melee weapons special abilities table. If the designers had wanted to limit keen that way, they could/would/should have put the same limitation on it as they've done with ki focus (just below keen in the DMG). The way it is written at the moment, nothing (except, of course, for the DM) prevents PCs from enchanting their bows and crossbows with the keen ability.

- Cyraneth

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way it is written at the moment, nothing (except, of course, for the DM) prevents PCs from enchanting their bows and crossbows with the keen ability.

Or Mighty Cleaving?

-Hyp.

 

[Cyraneth]

Or Mighty Cleaving?

-Hyp.

Well, since the book doesn't limit it to melee weapons, sure... Just remember that extra attacks granted by the Cleave feat must be melee attacks. And since bows (except for elven bows) can't be used in melee, the benefit is lost anyway.

- Cyraneth

 

[Kai Lord]

Let me tell you about the time I did 240 points of damage with one shot, to a fiendish tyrannosaur....

How broken. I would never play such a character.