Keen equivalent for bows?

[Darklone]

What would be REALLY cool is to make a longbow that morphs into a two-bladed sword, and it stays keen in both forms.

Why shouldn't it stay keen in both forms? Simply take on of these morph weapons... CAdv IIRC? Longbow +2 or Quarterstaff+2? Add keen.

 

[hong]

I was just regressing for a minute to the anti-munchkin PC who plagued a previous campaign of mine. Rog/wiz/ftr/barb, with a two-bladed sword and a bow, and feats in both. She eventually went bad and became an NPC. Even with piles of loot, including a morphing sword/bow, I couldn't turn her into a viable character.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

Thanks all.
On re-reading the keen weapon ability I see that it does not state any prohibition on ranged weapons, nor does it specify melee weapons only.
So I guess it can be used on bows. D'oh.
Fortunately, my DM agrees

I'm glad you and your DM agree. It's worth noting, however, that the keen ability isn't listed on the Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table, just as distance isn't listed on the Melee Weapons Specail Abilities table. Some abilities, such as flaming, are listed on both.

Numerous people take this to mean a ranged weapon may not be keen under RAW, which I assumed was the basis for the original question.

Owen K.C. Stephens
d20 Triggerman

Need better cheap magic options?
Get Loot 4 Less II: Rods, Staves and Wands

 

[mvincent]

On re-reading the keen weapon ability I see that it does not state any prohibition on ranged weapons, nor does it specify melee weapons only.
So I guess it can be used on bows. D'oh.

However, the Keen ability does not state "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the keen ability upon their ammunition."

This sentence is included in all ability descriptions where it applies. I do not think I could legitimately interepret that (strictly as written) a keen bow would bestow this ability on it's arrows. I seen nothing wrong with allowing it as a house rule though (it seems completely reasonable).

 

[mvincent]

the keen ability isn't listed on the Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table, just as distance isn't listed on the Melee Weapons Specail Abilities table. Some abilities, such as flaming, are listed on both.

Numerous people take this to mean a ranged weapon may not be keen under RAW

It is subject to some interpretation (so it's would seem more reasonable to believe that keen ranged weapons are not permitted under RAI rather than RAW). But then you have to wonder what would happen if you threw a keen dagger.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, the Keen ability does not state "Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the keen ability upon their ammunition."

This sentence is included in all ability descriptions where it applies. I do not think I could legitimately interepret that (strictly as written) a keen bow would bestow this ability on it's arrows.

It doesn't need to. An arrow has no threat range. A bow has a threat range of 20. A Keen bow has a threat range of 19-20. Since a bow normally has a threat range, and an arrow normally has no threat range, it seems that the threat-range-increasing effect is supposed to go on the bow, not the arrow... so no bestowal of ability on ammunition is required.

What's not clear is what happens when you cast Keen Edge on an arrow. Its threat range is normally --. What happens when you double --?

-Hyp.

 

[James McMurray]

An arrow has no threat range.

An arrow threatens on a 20, just like all other improvised weapons.

Booyah! In your face Hypersmurf and your supposed rules omniscience!

And all it took was a quote out of context.

What's not clear is what happens when you cast Keen Edge on an arrow. Its threat range is normally --. What happens when you double --?

Nothing when you fire it from a bow, doubles to 19-20 when used to stab someone. Me, I'd just let it double when firing from the bow too.

 

[mvincent]

An arrow has no threat range. A bow has a threat range of 20.

This viewpoint seems to imply that poisoning an arrow would be useless (i.e. because it is the bow, rather than the arrow that does the damage). I have to think that you are being over-literal again, and that the "bestow the ability upon their ammunition" lines (on any ability) are there for a reason.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This viewpoint seems to imply that poisoning an arrow would be useless (i.e. because it is the bow, rather than the arrow that does the damage). I have to think that you are being over-literal again, and that the "bestow the ability upon their ammunition" lines (on any ability) are there for a reason.

If I want to double my chances of critting when I shoot an arrow from my longbow, which feat do I want? Improved Critical (arrow)? Or Improved Critical (longbow)?

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

If I want to double my chances of critting when I shoot an arrow from my longbow, which feat do I want? Improved Critical (arrow)? Or Improved Critical (longbow)?

That does not address the points I made. Additional, the keen edge spell (the basis for the keen ability) definitely indicates that it is cast on arrows (making them magically keen... and it appears to use the dictionary definition of 'keen' in it's description). I'm unsure if you are being serious. Are you actually advocating disregarding common sense interpretations?