Blog (A5E) Keeping it Classy: Updated Core Classes in Level Up

[Morrus]

We’ve previously emphasized how the classes in Level Up now give a lot more love to the social and exploration pillars of the game, and while they certainly do, we haven’t neglected the combat pillar, either. Several of the classes got a more extensive combat pillar overhaul than the others, though, and below we’ll be discussing both the changes and what the benefits from those changes will be for your games. Much of his information hasn’t gotten a lot of proverbial air time because it's more in-depth than what can be squeezed into an infographic, but this is also some of the most impressive design work that the team produced, so get ready for some exciting revelations!

It’s notable that even this is more of a “highlight reel” than an exhaustive breakdown; with a dozen updated classes and the new Marshal class (to say nothing of rebalanced spells, feats, and magic items) there’s much more that’s been rebalanced than just what’s in this article.

Keeping it Classy: Updated Core Classes in Level Up — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

Several of the classes got a more extensive combat pillar overhaul than the others, though, and below we’ll be discussing both the changes and what the benefits from those changes will be for your games.

www.levelup5e.com

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Huh. Removing Action Surge borders on being a dealbreaker for my interest in this system's Fighter class, and the idea that it was approached as a "problem in need of solving" bodes poorly for me being on the same page as the system's design goals in general. Certainly talking at relative length about removing it with only vague allusions to unspecified cool stuff in return, as I would argue this blog post does, is probably not the best way to sell most people on the Level Up Fighter.

 

[Waller]

with only vague allusions to unspecified cool stuff in return,

Dude, they've been talking about combat maneuvers for months. It's the exact opposite of unspecified cool stuff. It's very specified cool stuff.

What Are Combat Maneuvers? — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

In Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition, martial classes get a choice of combat maneuvers. You learn combat maneuvers in a way not dissimilar to spells, and you power them by spending ‘exertion’.

www.levelup5e.com

 

[Faolyn]

Huh. Removing Action Surge borders on being a dealbreaker for my interest in this system's Fighter class, and the idea that it was approached as a "problem in need of solving" bodes poorly for me being on the same page as the system's design goals in general. Certainly talking at relative length about removing it with only vague allusions to unspecified cool stuff in return, as I would argue this blog post does, is probably not the best way to sell most people on the Level Up Fighter.

Well, it should be noted that there are a lot of maneuvers that effectively grant extra attacks.

 

[DeviousQuail]

It's nice to get the reasoning behind the changes. Losing EB as a cantrip, wildshape hit point nonsense, action surge, and smite slots are all things I can get behind for almost the exact reasons that were laid out.

 

[Timespike]

Huh. Removing Action Surge borders on being a dealbreaker for my interest in this system's Fighter class, and the idea that it was approached as a "problem in need of solving" bodes poorly for me being on the same page as the system's design goals in general. Certainly talking at relative length about removing it with only vague allusions to unspecified cool stuff in return, as I would argue this blog post does, is probably not the best way to sell most people on the Level Up Fighter.

I was pretty shocked when I saw Action Surge gone from the new fighter in the playtest document, too. Then I tried playing a fighter with the new rules. The maneuvers really do make it unnecessary. It's plenty effective without needing to break the action economy.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Dude, they've been talking about combat maneuvers for months. It's the exact opposite of unspecified cool stuff. It's very specified cool stuff.

What Are Combat Maneuvers? — Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)

In Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition, martial classes get a choice of combat maneuvers. You learn combat maneuvers in a way not dissimilar to spells, and you power them by spending ‘exertion’.

www.levelup5e.com

Sure, but if someone publicizes a specific blog entry it seems like it should stand on its own, or at least try to link the reader to whatever they need for context. Maybe I'm ignorant, but presumably they want to sell books to ignorant people too.

Well, it should be noted that there are a lot of maneuvers that effectively grant extra attacks.

It's not the overall number of attacks that I like about action surge. I just like having the humble Fighter be the class that gets to break the action economy in a simple, straightforward, and powerful way.

 

[Timespike]

Sure, but if someone publicizes a specific blog entry it seems like it should stand on its own, or at least try to link the reader to whatever they need for context. Maybe I'm ignorant, but presumably they want to sell books to ignorant people too.


It's not the overall number of attacks that I like about action surge. I just like having the humble Fighter be the class that gets to break the action economy in a simple, straightforward, and powerful way.

The problem is that it's not usually a "simple" fighter any more. It's a Fighter 2/Divine Soul Sorcerer X who casts fireball and then follows it up with spirit guardians.

That said, the humble fighter can still wreck their opposition with nothing but their training and a sword, the depiction of that training is just more varied and granular now.

 

[VanguardHero]

I love all these changes, and especially the transparency about the game design.

Fighter getting more interesting options in place of "I do my attacks again" adds so much, and the early playtest documents really showed that the devs got what makes Fighter so appealing, like I was utterly in love with the Nightwatch Exploration Knack.
Warlock is the only Class that felt well designed in 5e, having non-spell choices after 3rd level, and this gives it the smaller bumps it really needed, especially turning Pact of Blade into Hexblade without the cheese. Also love them functioning off of an MP system.
Herald sounds solid overall, I love the focus on Smites should result in more than damage, since the big problem in o5e was Melee being boring even if the damage numbers were good, "I attack X times, wait for my party to make interesting dynamic choices with their spells and hey its me again I attack X times".
Druid sounds great, Wild Shape staying relevant as more than a "Have a Bigger HP pool than a whole party of Martials" gimmick is fantastic, the main thing a Druid lover pointed out being meh on in the playtest was a limited number of forms known which I don't see mentioned here, was that dropped or do you still have a small pool of chosen forms?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The problem is that it's not usually a "simple" fighter any more. It's a Fighter 2/Divine Soul Sorcerer X who casts fireball and then follows it up with spirit guardians.

Once per short rest at the cost of delaying progression in, you know, magic for two levels. It just never bothered me.

I guess it just never struck me as a "cheesy" multiclass. In my headcannon such multiclasses are just people who focused some of their training more on mundane things like physical endurance, functioning in armor, and fighting with weapons, which makes reasonable sense for anyone involved in the adventurer lifestyle, and as a result have the fortitude for an occasional heroic moment that other mages can't manage at the cost of being less skilled in the highest levels of magic. It's a lot less to explain than why every Paladin is selling their soul to a sentient weapon or discovering that they have a sorcerous bloodline.