Keeping the Party Awake

[ThaDium]

I appreciate all of the concern regarding the impression that I'm railroading my PCs. I assure you, I'm not. It would take too much explaining to go over the reasons why not, but the biggest one is that if they figure out how to thwart the plan, I'll let them.

My motivation for the scene, is to three-fold.
1) I want to establish that the region they are in is dangerous without just filling it with high level monsters.
2) A major plot involves a powerful, empire-wide cult that seeks to bring about the downfall of civilization in order to restore the natural world. The goblinoids are a part of that cult.
3) My main goal is just to get them to stay at a fortified inn. If the forest is safe, they'll skip it to save gold. If it actually proves to be dangerous, they'll pay the money and I'll be able to run nice little social game full of rumors and conflicting NPC groups who can't throw down due to their need to stay at the inn, which my PCs will LOVE!

Also, my plan actually requires a relatively small number of harassers, provided they don't get caught, allowing the rest to sleep. And, they know the terrain while the PCs don't. Will there need to be goblins who are named and leveled (particularly with caster levels)? Yes. But the's not out of the ordinary for my games. (Not every goblin, hobgoblin or bugbear needs to be MM cannon fodder.)

Additionally, I'm only planning to play it out over two nights before they get to the inn. One to establish the situation, and another to up the tension and allow them to respond in some clever way that will, hopefully, totally foul up my plan.

That's how I run most of my games. I come up with a clever idea, set it in motion and wait for my players to ruin it so I make things up as I go in order to handle what they're throwing at me. This is assuming I'm not just making it up with no plan at all other that what had come before. I find my best gaming sessions develop this way; no intention on my part other that giving the players a good time. (Clearly, my earlier posts gave y'all a very different perspective on me as a DM, since I was even accused of writing a novel.)

I've been doing the DM-thing for over 16 yrs and have been running the people in my current group of players for anywhere from 7-16 of those years, depending on the player. Most of them are driving for about an hour just to get to game. If I was a crappy railroader, those things wouldn't be the case. I know what they'll dig, and I admit, this one is right on the edge. That's why I'm asking for help, so I don't screw it up. If I knew it was going to go smoothly, I wouldn't have posted about. That said, when it comes to my players, they trust me and I trust them. For one game, they'll play along with a little tense nighttime harassment.

 

[nijineko]

how are these small groups of harrassers managing to pull off all of the various effects? that is a lot of preparations, or if it is general, then that is a lot of resources committed over a very wide area....

last time this happened to us, we would set guards and let one or two critical members get sleep. most of us had rings of sustenance which shorten sleep times (if not recovery times for powers and spells). we used silence spells when necessary to let them sleep through combat.

as far as keeping them awake, a simple attack with a non-lethal blunt arrow will do it. just attack one at a time, move, and then snipe again. target sleepers. could use horns to wake them. cast magic mouth on the campfire and have it recite bad poetry would take your harrassment from bad to verse.

^^

 

[ThaDium]

how are these small groups of harrassers managing to pull off all of the various effects? that is a lot of preparations, or if it is general, then that is a lot of resources committed over a very wide area....^^

A single 4th level druid goblin can summon wolves, a swarm of spiders and throw a thunderstone. That's everything I mentioned and would cover one night for keeping them up.

last time this happened to us, we would set guards and let one or two critical members get sleep. most of us had rings of sustenance which shorten sleep times (if not recovery times for powers and spells). we used silence spells when necessary to let them sleep through combat. ^^

They don't have rings of sustenance. (Speaking of quite a lot of resources.) Though, after this they may seek them out. I expect them to try a silence spell. That would mean those within can't hear a coming attacker, a terrible idea, which I'll point out to my players. They can still do it if they want to, but the goblinoids might take advantage. There's only 4 PCs, 3 of which are casters so it'll be hard for them to set watch such that they all get rest.

as far as keeping them awake, a simple attack with a non-lethal blunt arrow will do it. just attack one at a time, move, and then snipe again. target sleepers. could use horns to wake them. cast magic mouth on the campfire and have it recite bad poetry would take your harrassment from bad to verse.

^^

Thanks for the ideas. Magic mouth, in particular is a good one. It would only mean. Best of all, a magic item could easily cover it, which the PCs might then recover.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

cast magic mouth on the campfire and have it recite bad poetry would take your harrassment from bad to verse.

^^

I'm going to steal this for something. Not sure what yet, but I like it.

 

[Stormonu]

I'm going to steal this for something. Not sure what yet, but I like it.

Better yet, cast it on a sleeping PCs armor or weapons. Nothing like being woken up in the middle of the night by raiders to grab your weapon and it starts yelling, "Kill me first!"

 

[ThaDium]

Things you might be missing:
When travelling, we typically have a scroll of rope trick, if the wizard doesn't already have it memorized. Just to avoid even a single interruption while sleeping.

Has your DM ever had an enemy just come by and dispel the rope trick? Assuming they've observed you enough to know you use that, it seems like an obvious tactic to let some evil NPCs catch your party unprepared. Maybe even just dig a nice wide, deep hole under the rope and fill it with spikes? Seems to me like your DM lets you get away with that trick because he isn't looking to up the tension. of the game.

Also, as long as the wizard isn't engaging in combat or talking or using skills, it can count as "sleep" even if they aren't literally sleeping the whole time. If they wake up during an attack but choose not to get involved, it doesn't count as an interruption.

Where did you find this ruling? It seems odd to me. Just the adrenaline rush from such a situation is going to ruin the idea that you're getting a full night's rest.

Also, how can you wake up during an attack and choose not to get involved? "Sorry chums, you're all gonna have to die without my help. I'm gonna chill on this rock so I can prep my spells in the morning."

 

[olshanski]

Has your DM ever had an enemy just come by and dispel the rope trick? Assuming they've observed you enough to know you use that, it seems like an obvious tactic to let some evil NPCs catch your party unprepared. Maybe even just dig a nice wide, deep hole under the rope and fill it with spikes? Seems to me like your DM lets you get away with that trick because he isn't looking to up the tension. of the game.

Where did you find this ruling? It seems odd to me. Just the adrenaline rush from such a situation is going to ruin the idea that you're getting a full night's rest.

Also, how can you wake up during an attack and choose not to get involved? "Sorry chums, you're all gonna have to die without my help. I'm gonna chill on this rock so I can prep my spells in the morning."

Once you pull up the rope, it is invisible. If your opponents can cast "see invisibility" and "Dispel", then, yes, you will be in trouble.


The ruling about not needing to sleep comes from the rules:

To prepare her daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but she must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period.

You could say that combat nearby would violate the rules, but I think an argument could be made that as long as the wizard isn't talking or spellcasting or engaged in combat, it is OK.

It sounds like you have an interesting plot. Good luck.

 

[N'raac]

Once you pull up the rope, it is invisible. If your opponents can cast "see invisibility" and "Dispel", then, yes, you will be in trouble.

I'm amazed how many people think Rope Trick means the party is perfectly safe, come what may.

Seems to me the OP's scenario implies the PC's are being stalked and likely spied on, so I would expect they can watch the PC's climb up the rope and have a pretty good idea where to cast a Dispel. They do, of course, need the Dispel.

Or they can simply surround the area with archers and wait for the PC's to emerge, one at a time, to climb down the rope. They can do a lot outside the field of that 3' x 5' window equivalent. Assuming your PC's are on the ball, they can't, say, build a roaring bonfire right under your safe haven, or dig a big pity full of spikes under there. They can wait until that rope comes down and try to pull it down, shake it wildly to make safe climbing tough, cut it, climb up it, etc. If they have the means to reach the same level, they can also pass through that space to your hidey hole (wasn't there a Druid involved here? Don't they take on forms like birds and bats?)

Coming back to that emergence, how high do you send the rope up? Only ONE person can climb the rope at a time. DC5 is pretty easy, so you might move it up to DC 10 to climb at half your normal speed (DC 5 for 1/4), but that's still at least a full round to get from the top to the bottom. A full round during which you have no DEX modifier (Rogue grins in delight!). Or you could just leap down - 3d6 damage isn't so bad, but now you're probably prone. Standing up means AoO's.

So maybe hauling in that firewood makes sense - either you start coming out, or we build a huge bonfire under your Rope Trick. Once it's lit, we can keep feeding it until your spell expires.

Thinking on it, nothing would prevent a large group of archers firing arrows at the general area. Some will pass through the portal (spells don't pass through. People carrying arrows pass through, so it seems reasonable arrows can pass through). Unlikely to hit the concealed targets within, but probably makes a good sleep pretty unlikely.

Arguably, the space can be reached only by the rope - in which case the flying druid, arrow fire, etc. tactics will all fail. In that case, waiting until half the party climbs up (or the first guy pops out), then attacking to damage the rope itself, burn it, pull it free, etc. seems like a great tactic. Now the rest are stuck there until the spell expires. It seems more likely someone familiar with the spell itself, rather than some goblins lead by a druid, would figure that one out.

I assume none of your characters use Bags of Holding, Handy Haversacks or similar items, as you can't access their contents (which, for most PC's, tend to include food, water and bedding - not to mention spellbooks) while in the Rope Trick's extradimensional space. Of course, you can always take them out before climbing up, but then you have to carry them back down again, likely slowed due to encumbrance. And good luck climbing down with a spell book or two - you need both hands to climb.

The ruling about not needing to sleep comes from the rules:
You could say that combat nearby would violate the rules, but I think an argument could be made that as long as the wizard isn't talking or spellcasting or engaged in combat, it is OK.

To me, the intent of that rule is to say "you have a strange dream and awaken, rolling over and going back to sleep" does not mean the 8 hours start over. It doesn't mean you can just lean back and relax in any stressful situation and lie quietly, awake and perceiving all that goes on around you, and still be considered resting/sleeping.

Mind you, if I ruled it did work, I'd also have to rule most spellcasters are aware of this, and can advise the archers to target characters who stay on the ground, prone, with a few arrows to make sure. I think taking damage would be sufficient to disrupt one's sleep - you may not attack, but that does not mean you are not "in combat".

Of course, the wizards staying quietly on the ground precludes the warriors chasing down the enemy. So the gobins can hide in the trees and snipe to their black little hearts' content. Fire an arrow or two; move somewhere else. Even if two goblins each fire one arrow a minute, hitting with 1 arrow in 5 (so they need a 17+ to hit), that means a single target gets hit 24 times an hour for an average of 3.5 damage (assuming little d6 arrows or 1d4 sling bullets with a +1 STR bonus), so 84 hp an hour. Don't forget that the cleric cannot recover any spells used within 8 hours of his usual spell recovery time.

Oh, one guard chases the goblins into the brush while the other stands watch over the wizard? OK - that's the time the Druid chooses to summon those wolves, and Speak with Animals to instruct them to target the guys lying on the ground.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Wait, these goblins can dig pit traps whether or not the PCs have somebody on watch? How do you dig that much stealthily? Ditto with setting up other labor intensive traps

With a Dire badger's 10' burrow speed. 10' down in 6 seconds? I think that can make a number of scary pits within a night's time. doing so outside campfire range. A Druid level 4 can qualify to have one as an animal companion.

 

[nijineko]

one of my characters is forever, and i mean FOREVER, banned from taking watch alone ever again, due to exactly the sorts of situations described with rope trick. smart guy... not so wise. with an extend meta-rod on his rope trick, he thought they were perfectly safe and could outlast any shenanigans the enemy could pull... even if it was looking really smokey out there.


BAD MOVE...


we did survive it in the end, but boy was that a close one. i have the story posted over on penandpapergames.com in my blog there.


yes, it is very useful. no, it is not completely safe, unless the opponents can't detect magic and/or see invisible. and it is a trap waiting to happen dead end if your opponent has the transdimensional meta feat.

however, should they not be able to dispel it, it can also be a great "narrow corridor" from which to snipe them. you only have to stick ranged weapons or wands out in order to fire, and little can penetrate the interface. if they can mass up and wait you out or dispel it, you might want another option, but it can make a great bolt hole for your ranged characters to distract an enemy from your melee and stealth types that are outside the rope trick...

one of my personal favorites is almost as good as coating stuff randomly with sovereign glue... the psionic power molecular binding is only 2nd level, has a short range - 10', is objects only, and doesn't last long, just 1 min/lvl. but there is no save or resistance against it, and it temporarily fuses two objects at the molecular level.

in order to make it a bit difficult once you've woken them up, just before-hand: bind boots to any hand rocks underneath, bind armor joints to each other, weapons to sheaths, clothing to blankets, tents, and other sleeping gear, seal shut backpacks and sacks, join rope knots and whatever the rope is tied to... the list goes on and on.

you could even build random objects'd'art with gear, wood, and stones, and then wake them.



i imagine it would be slightly disturbing if the scarecrow that was in the field next to the camp site last evening was leaning over and staring you in the face when you next were woken up... and if it was bound to your sleeping bag on the molecular level along with your clothes. can't get out of the bag, can't get the scare crow away from you....




...now cast that magic mouth spell. ^^




=D